New heat treat details ?

S

Swedgeman

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Jun 21, 2013
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I have been looking around to try to find the details on the new heat treat on the gso's but I still have some questions. I know that his former heat treat was excellent so what

are the advantages and/or disadvantages of the new ? I heard it has better corrosion resistance but what about the toughness at the higher Rc, is it going to suffer ? If so how

much ? Basically how will it compare overall in edge retention, toughness, and corrosion resistance. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks everyone.
 
Guy or Ellie would definitely be the true source here, but if you haven't already, check out the S! instagram and fan group on Facebook. I'll see if I can do some copying and pasting from those sources.
 
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Here is a comparison pic of the old and new finish and heat treat...... well a screen shot of the pic


And here is the accompanying text


Copy and paste of a comment from Guy of same pic. Keep in mind this is 3v he's talking about
"The new protocol leaves more free chromium in the alloy, which helps to boost corrosion resistance. I believe the new peened finish may also help with corrosion resistance as well."

Comment on 20cv
"We are also working on a new heat treat protocol for the CPM-20CV, which should further boost its corrosion resistance. I'll need to have some lab testing done to confirm what the exact differences are. From a weather testing point of view, I'm very impressed with what I'm seeing out of the 3V. I expect the 20CV will be even more resistant to the elements."
 
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I looked through the Facebook fan group page looking for the post from Guy showing the new finish and heat treat and wanted to see some good information from him in the comments, but didn't see what I was looking for.

Any other facebookers having better luck?
 
Best to directly contact the maker Guy Seiferd @ Survive! Knifes directly by email for that type of information.
 
Definitely not a bad idea, Cham. Every now and then it seems like they get to check in here before getting to the very bottom of their inbox. Plus if they reply here then we'll all know!
 
Thank you everyone for your help and effort I just might send Guy an email and see what he has to say. Thanks!
 
Also, found some more Guy quoted from Facebook

"The main goal of the new heat treat protocol was to further increase blade toughness and improve edge stability. The improved corrosion resistance is simply a side effect of the new process. I'll take it though, it is a pretty neat side effect. ;)"


Also check out this thread:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...question-big-vs-small?p=15086835#post15086835

This thread has the information I was thinking of for you, hope it helps.
 
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Low temper. Thats what I was told makes the difference. The chromenium stays in solution as opposed to become so many carbides.
 
Sounds great. Thanks for the info everyone. Toughness was my main concern but Guy doesn't seem to think that will be a problem and I know Guy would never put out a bad product.
 
Silver Needle said:
Also, found some more Guy quoted from Facebook

"The main goal of the new heat treat protocol was to further increase blade toughness and improve edge stability. The improved corrosion resistance is simply a side effect of the new process. I'll take it though, it is a pretty neat side effect. ;)"


Also check out this thread:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...question-big-vs-small?p=15086835#post15086835

This thread has the information I was thinking of for you, hope it helps.
Click to expand...
With improved edge stability is an attempt at a scandi grind possible again?
 
Fancier said:
With improved edge stability is an attempt at a scandi grind possible again?
Click to expand...

From what I've read, the scandi is not totally out of the question, but Guy hasn't been completely happy with scandi performance and needs to find time to work on this unique grind.

So... kinda :)
 
He said it was a possibility but as for now it just took too long to produce them. I think there trying to focus more on getting starters out and gaining some back stock to help with demand, while still maintaining quality. I don't think he'd wanna jump into another design that would deviate from his original, because then he's back to working out kinks. But this is just my opinion. You'd have to ask Guy for his take on things.
 
I think there is a place for a scandi ground knife in a small knife, but they are inherently weak and have restricted uses as a result. But they do excel at those restricted uses such as carving and basic bushcraft cutting chores. I am not sure if a modified heat treat will make this a more viable grind or not. I know another knife maker that used to make this grind, and stopped doing it due to the problems people were having by not using them correctly and bending edges. However, he resumed making them again due to popular demand. Personally I am not a huge fan of the scandi grind because of the inherent weakness of the grind. It is really a philosophical argument for me though, and there are plenty of fans for this grind.
 
McVeyMac said:
I think there is a place for a scandi ground knife in a small knife, but they are inherently weak and have restricted uses as a result. But they do excel at those restricted uses such as carving and basic bushcraft cutting chores. I am not sure if a modified heat treat will make this a more viable grind or not. I know another knife maker that used to make this grind, and stopped doing it due to the problems people were having by not using them correctly and bending edges. However, he resumed making them again due to popular demand. Personally I am not a huge fan of the scandi grind because of the inherent weakness of the grind. It is really a philosophical argument for me though, and there are plenty of fans for this grind.
Click to expand...
A typical angle for a scandi grind is 13° per side. Typical sharpening angles for knives in more popular styles are between 15° and 20° per side. The Scandinavians seem to prefer high stability, low carbide steel, often run about 58-60 HRC.
I'd be surprised if 3V wasn't capable of similar or better performance than the 12C27 and low alloy carbon steels often used by Scandinavian knife makers.
I guess it comes down to whether you want to use a Scandi grind or if if you happier with a thinner grind with a higher edge angle. The Scandi isn't really optimized for slicing because of the wide bevels, but it isn't radically weaker than knives with secondary bevels.
 
Just a couple cross-thread links, and I'll embed the video here again, testing the new HT and finish: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1314914-Field-testing-the-new-finish

[video=youtube;tusmZwVfgM4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tusmZwVfgM4[/video]

If the new HT protocol has caused a reduction in toughness (as I expect), I haven't experienced a problem with it yet. So far the steel is performing as one might expect for a blade sharpened down to 0.020" behind a 20dps edge (what the one in the video measured at).
 
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