New HT Oven—?

[DanF]

The Evenheat LB is rated at 2200F max,the Paragon 2350F max.
I like the idea of having just a little extra umph left in the Paragon.
Evenheat mentions, well, even heat in the chamber. I like that idea a lot. My small Paragon (14” deep) had a hot spot at the back wall.
I like the robust build of the Paragon.
I have read through the threads here comparing both, and still can’t decide. But, I really like the idea of a more even temp chamber.
Maybe I’m just thinking the pros and cons out loud and maybe I’m hoping someone has something definitive to add.

And next week I start the hydraulic press search

 

[Bühlmann]

Have you looked a Jen-Ken Air Baths? I think they top out at 2200F, but use a little different philosophy in construction. Just another option. YMMV.

 

[DanF]

I have seen the name, but had not looked in that direction. Will give them a look, thanks!

 

[Seedy Lot]

Paragon Double Barrel ovens have heat elements on sides and the top, maybe more consistent heat.

 

[DanF]

Have you looked a Jen-Ken Air Baths? I think they top out at 2200F, but use a little different philosophy in construction. Just another option. YMMV.

Smaller footprint for a smaller shop space. Unless I see something negative regarding them, it has edged out one of the others.

 

[Bühlmann]

Smaller footprint for a smaller shop space. Unless I see something negative regarding them, it has edged out one of the others.

It also doesn't require an expensive special rack to hold your blades upright, and includes the hangers with the kiln. That's one of those annoying little wtfs when a multi-thousand dollar knifemaking kiln doesn't come with the knifemaking "accessory" you need to use it properly, and then that knifemaking "accessory" is another hundred bucks. What makes it a "knifemaking" kiln if you don't include a knife rack with the unit? Maybe I'm missing something because I'm a newb, but it just seems like an eye roller to me. YMMV.

 

[Blankblank]

If you already have a kiln, why not take a look into salt baths? I feel like they would give fairly even heating. The transfer of heat the the blade is pretty rapid in them, which can be a plus I suppose, depending on the situation.

I think one of these could potentially give someone that already has a kiln a lot of versatility.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

A salt bath is great. They are a bit expensive and takes special care in use and maintenance. They also draw a LOT of current You will need a 50amp socket for one. A pair of salt baths for austenitization and then marquenching/ausquenching draws close to 80 amps.

The plus is no decarb, no warp, very fast and even heating and cooling.

 

[DanF]

If I remember correctly (And maybe not), someone had fabricated a pipe/tube to slide down inside a vertical oven/kiln with a hole through the kilns lid for use as a salt pot some years ago (here).
Just looked at Evenheat’s salt pot, looks like it is around 30 amps @240v (7200w). Pricey though.
I’ll have to look back through old threads and see if I remembered that correctly about the conversion. Maybe an old vertical kiln could be repurposed at a $ savings?
I also remember the warnings offered up for salt pot use, will have to consider that also.

 

[fitzo]

Have salt pot maximum temps/salts reached a point where they can handle the modern alloys?

 

[DanF]

The Evenheats I looked at show a max temp of 2000f. I wonder if the salt is the limiting factor?

 

[fitzo]

The Evenheats I looked at show a max temp of 2000f. I wonder if the salt is the limiting factor?

The question I would have: "Is 2000F a max temp that may take many hours to reach or is it a 'normal operating temperature' where one can actually do work?"

As for salts, the normal stuff won't work up that high. I vaguely remember reading of "high temp" salts but that was 15 years ago when I was interested and I forget what I read. Corrosivity and stability become real concerns up at 2000 and above.

Edited to add: I found some salts by Hubbard Hall that cover the high temps, but not the lower temps of hardening in the same salt.

Hardening	Neutral Salt C	850º F	950º - 1600º F
	Neutral Salt H	1200º F	1300º - 1900º F
	Neutral Salt HH	1600 º F	1700º - 2400º F

That single temp is the melting point of the salts. The other temps are the working range.

Might be a PITA to cover all temps. Looks like one would need two pots if covering all the bases were desired or choose your steels accordingly. That neutral Salt H would cover a lot of steels.

 

[DanF]

One thread from 2014 said simple SS like aeb-l is do-able at 1975*.
I guess we can take that with a grain of salt (no pun intended).
I am sure it has it’s positives, but I think I’ll leave it be. I don’t think I can move fast enough to get out of the way now.

 

[fitzo]

One thread from 2014 said simple SS like aeb-l is do-able at 1975*.
I guess we can take that with a grain of salt (no pun intended).
I am sure it has it’s positives, but I think I’ll leave it be. I don’t think I can move fast enough to get out of the way now.

I thought long and hard about salt pots back years ago, but I tend to make one knife at a time and don't do batches. Firing up a pot for one knife seemed like too much, so I tabled the idea. Very cool idea, though, especially for someone who works in batches..

 

[Blankblank]

My thinking, is it it all depends what you want to do. Maybe keep the kiln for steels more alloyed than d2, or even have a salt pot of doing something like austempering, or marquenching. At the same time, its obviously not the most necessary thing in the world.

Where they really seem be best suited is when you went to get to an exact temperature in a very short amount of time.

Also the salt pot you mentioned may have been kevin cashens? He uses a propane heated one. I can say the thing definitely seems to climb to heat quite rapidly.

The dangers are definitely real with them. Any water in the molten salts, and they will rapidly exit the vessel and shoot upwards, in what I've heard everyone describe as a shotgun like blast. So yeah, don't put something wet in there.