New hunter pics and a question about an intersting etch pattern.

[misque]

Here's a forged to shape drop point in 1084. It's 5/32" thick and 4 5/8" long in the blade and is full height flat ground. Overall length is 10" and it is of blind tang construction. The handle is a piece of interesting maple that's been sitting around since 1995. I was waiting for the right knife to put it on and figured this one would be the one.
When I etched it for 60 seconds in a 4:1 ferric chloride/water mix, I got this random damascus looking pattern on both sides of the blade. Can anyone shed some light on what it might be?

All the best,
Mike U.


Edited to add info.

 

[misque]

Here's a close up of the handle.

 

[misque]

Here's a full side shot of the knife.

 

[Bruce Bump]

From what I can tell from the pic You may still have some burnt steel (scale) on the surface. Maybe you forged it to shape just abit too close. Even though you ground it off the skin can be .010" deep. Maybe a silly question but did you normalize the blade? That maybe coarse grain or maybe it was overheated if using a coal forge.

Nice looking knife

 

[misque]

Thanks Bruce!
I was using a propane forge and the knife was normalized, annealed and then heated and quenched. I then triple tempered @ 375 degrees, finished grinding the bevels and then sharpened and etched.

Here's a somewhat grainy pic of the other side of the blade. I'm having an especially difficult time trying to get a proper pic of the blade's surface.

 

[burke531]

I got something similar to this when my etch container had a tiny bit of oil or something in it. I can't quite tell from the picture if this is the same thing.

 

[misque]

OK, trying to get a good photo of the blade's surface has nearly pegged my frustration meter, so here's my last shot at it.

One thing I forgot to mention was the fact that I cleaned the blade with Windex immediately before it went into the etch.:footinmou This "random damascus" pattern has happened before when I Windexed a 1084 blade then etched it. While I'm certainly open to the possibility of an overheated blade, (I'm still a neophyte when it comes to the forging process so this is well within the realm of possibility) I'm now wondering if the ammonia-d(?) in Windex could be affecting the outcome of the etch.

Comments/opinions are most welcome. (in other words, HELP!!)


All the best,
Mike U.

 

[misque]

I just did an experiment on a stock removal blade blank that has been edge quenched, tempered and so on... I etched it without using Windex as a cleaner and here are the results.

As you can see there is just the quench line visible and the blade is smooth.

 

[misque]

Here is the same blade.

It has been ground on a 320 grit AO belt to remove the last etch and was cleaned with Windex and then etched. Again I'm having a difficult time photographing the etch but the "random damascus" pattern is there now, just a good deal lighter than the first knife in this thread. This tells me something is happening between the Windex and the etch process. Ideas anyone? I'm pretty well stumped. As is often the case in experimentation, it raises more questions then it answers.


edited to correct speeling errorz

 

[NickWheeler]

Whenever you etch something, it has to be CLEAN.

Clean with something like Liquid Ivory before you etch. Use the Windex with ammonia post etch to neutralize the acid.

It's always a good idea to dip the blade into the acid for just a second and take it out for a quick look. If it has any silver spots, either the blade wasn't clean, or the acid has oil or something you don't want in it (like Bill Burke mentioned).

If there is ANY excess Windex on the blade it will interfere with the etch.

Nick

 

[peter nap]

Sorry for taking so long. I tried to post when you first put this up but I've been having problems with my ISP. Anyway....I have gotten this type of pattern when my anvil was dirty and I forged traces of whatever into the blade. Now you need to learn to tell people that this is a special process you have to pattern the blade!

 

[Mark Williams]

Now you need to learn to tell people that this is a special process you have to pattern the blade

That's going to be my excuse from now on. My special process is a dirty, rusty, pitted anvil that never gets brushed off the whole time I forge a blade. I just hammet the crap right back into the steel that flakes off Just kidding of course

Mark

 

[Danbo]

I have only etched a few damascus blades, but the expert I talked to told me to clean the blades first in a mix of TSP and water first. I also used the TSP and water to neutralize the acid, and it worked very well.

 

[Daniel Koster]

Originally posted by Danbo
a mix of TSP and water...

distilled water...right?

 

[Danbo]

Actually, no. I used hot water straight out of the tap. It worked fine, but I understand that the results will be better with distilled water. I'll make sure to try that next time.

 

[Burchtree]

I just clean the blade with rubbing alchohol and run it under water for awhile before etching. It seems to work pretty decent.

 

[the possum]

Though I don't know about your blade, I have a comment regarding etching. Since I mostly make miniature knives, whenever I'd etch a blade there is almost no good way to handle it between etchings. (the tang on a folder is smaller than a match head- not much to hang onto.) Even if I thought my hands were clean, some oils or sweat or whatever would get on that tiny blade and mess with the etch. I also noticed that oils from the skin turn the freshly etched blade nasty colors, but as long as I put gun oil on the blade first, body oils didn't affect it nearly as badly. So, eventually the day came when I just dropped a blade back into the acid without bothering to clean off the gun oil. It etched wonderfully. Granted, it took a lot longer, and I think that may have actually helped slow things down for better contrast. Now, I etch all my mini blades with a light coat of oil on them. I don't believe that having an oil free surface is really necessary. I think it's more important that the whole surface be *uniform* - whether clean or oiled.

 

[misque]

Nick,
So, it's possible when I wiped the Windex off some residue dried on the surface undetected and acted as a kind of alkaline barrier against the acidic action of the etch. Seems plausible because the stuff tends to be fast drying and I went right from Windex to etch. Great idea to use the Windex post etch.

Possum,
The uniformity issue would explain why a 1084 blade came outta the etch with a random damascus-like pattern. Wiping off the Windex would certainly leave streaky areas where some of the cleaner didn't come completely off and went into the etchant on the blade's surface.

Peter,
Good idea.


Thanks for the help fellas!


All the best,
Mike U.