New Knife: forced patina vs. natural

L

lee12

Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
48
Hello All:

I went to the case factory outlet here in Missouri yesterday. Thought that it would be cool to get a brand new traditional American made knife to celebrate the birthday of our great nation. I ended up getting the Sodbuster Jr. with chestnut panels and CV steel. This is my first NEW CV knife I have ever owned. I was just going to let the patina form naturally because I thought that forced seemed....well....seemed liked cheating. However the more I read the more I found out that the patina serves a far greater purpose than just looking cool, it protects the blade from rust. So this brings about my question, should I force a patina or not? I must admit, it would be nice to fight rust less. Thanks guys, looking forward to the discussion.
 
What a great day to visit the Case factory and buy a classic American pocket knife :thumbup:

Personally, I'd just let the patina come naturally. I used mine on food, so the patina came quite quickly, but the polish is pretty good on these knives, unless you're keeping it somewhere damp, I don't think that rust will be a problem :thumbup:
 
I've done the forced patina in the past. Now I just like to let it happen naturally. I don't look at it as cheating because I like the patina look. I just can't be bothered these days. It comes soon enough. It's all personal preference in my opinion.
 
I will stick to the saying ( good things come to them that waits ) its natural all the way for me :)
 
Think of this way,if you were in the market to buy,say an antique table and you came across one you really liked but later on found out it was refinished just to look old,would you be happy with that? Goes the same with a knife or anything for that matter,naturally occurring age looks so much better than something forced to look old,don't you think?
 
I have forced patina on my knives and it is interesting the different patterns and colors that come about with different types of things, like mustard, apples, and etc. Now, I just let it happen naturally and it is more even.
 
When I have allowed my Case CV knives to acquire a patina, I just used them to cut up apples that I took with me to work for snacks or lunch and let it happen over a longer period of time. I suppose that was actually a forced patina since I normally just bite into apples rather than go to the trouble of cutting them up, but it was from actual normal food prep tasks over several months. Strawberries create a very nice iridescent patina if you want to experiment with different foods.

Whether or not a patina adds to rust resistance is frequently debated here. I have read enough discussions and research to believe that it only prevents rust because it helps the surface hold oil better.

If you like the looks of a patina, then force it or allow it to develop over time, as you so choose. But I would not do it solely with the expectation of it being a rust preventative. I generally keep my CV blades polished and lightly oiled every so often. No rust issues so far.

By the way - great choice of knife. I have the same Chestnut Bone CV Sod Buster Jr and really like it.
 
Even if you force it initially, using the knife under any wet/acidic conditions (food, etc) will still change and or completely replace it over time. So, the 'natural' patina will come anyway, and it'll constantly change (I think I've heard of it referred to as a 'living finish' on a blade). To me, the question of which is 'better' is essentially moot, for that reason. Patina simply happens, whether you give it a boost or not.

I WILL say, however, that a forced patina early on can reduce the occurance of rust-spotting (& subsequent pitting, if the spots are not dealt with) on Case's CV blades. I've noticed this with three of my CV knives ('75 stockman, Sod Buster and a Peanut). The blades I've let be (Peanut), without a forced patina, will pretty quickly spot up with small specks of rust, just from handling or in-pocket carry during humid seasons. The rusty spotting needs to be cleaned up, which usually scrubs off some of the 'natural' patina anyway, if any is there. The blades on which I forced an early patina (w/vinegar & hot water) have resisted the spotting to a much greater degree. Both my '75 stockman and my Sod Buster ride in my pocket everyday, and it's been extra muggy this summer; no issues thus far and no need to scrub off any patina in chasing the rust spots (and I don't oil the blades; only the joints). The most obvious advantage in forcing it is, you can pre-empt much of the 'natural' rusting that might simultaneously come with a 'natural' patina over time.

And the concept of 'cheating' the patina is pretty ambiguous anyway. Many claiming to 'let it happen naturally' will also quickly go out of their way to cut up some fruit or steaks with the new knife in the deliberate pursuit of the 'natural' patina; so it'll still be 'rushed' or 'forced' to some degree. ;)


David
 
Last edited:
Another vote for a natural patina. Congratulations on scoring a awesome new knife, lee12. Here is a shot of my Sodbuster Jr. with a natural patina.
19034210129_500cc7ac25_b.jpg
 
You made a great choice. That Sod Buster Jr. will serve you well and should develop a nice patina in a short time.
 
Why force it? Just slice up a few bags of lemons and limes for that classic summertime favorite, limonade.
 
David makes a good point, what is 'forced' actually? It all depends how often you use your knife to cut acidic fruits of veg, if you use a new carbon knife as a kitchen knife for a week it will be patinated, but you could say it's 'forced' too. OK it's not dipping it in vinegar or whatnot to blacken it but it is deliberately exposing it. Better term would be long or short term patination The thing is with carbon, it can take on some pretty unsightly even ghastly blotching at first, I often scotchbrite off patina for the first couple of weeks and then let it take hold, seems to offer a more even plane once the polish has truly gone, less blotchy stains, more uniform.

But then, a genius invented stainless :thumbup: Much to the endless chagrin of rust-followers:D:D

The CASE Sodbuster in Chestnut/cv is a very beautiful knife, I have one and onions made it blue in no time:cool:

Thanks, Will
 
I have 2 relatively new GEC knives (1095) that I have been carrying a lot lately and letting the patina form naturally. After about a month they both have some color. It's between rather hot this weekend and I noticed both knives got some red pepper sorts on the blades. I like patina (black oxide) but can't stand rusty (red oxide). I have noticed that black oxide tends to firm with acids (mustard, fruit, vinegar, etc.) and rust forms with salt (mostly handling with sweaty hands). The two oxides defintely behave differently as black oxide is a later that prevents further oxidation while red oxide allows the oxidation process to comprise occurring below the surface.

Bottom line: I helped my patina along to prevent further pepper spotting.
 
lee12 said:
Hello All:

I went to the case factory outlet here in Missouri yesterday. Thought that it would be cool to get a brand new traditional American made knife to celebrate the birthday of our great nation. I ended up getting the Sodbuster Jr. with chestnut panels and CV steel. This is my first NEW CV knife I have ever owned. I was just going to let the patina form naturally because I thought that forced seemed....well....seemed liked cheating. However the more I read the more I found out that the patina serves a far greater purpose than just looking cool, it protects the blade from rust. So this brings about my question, should I force a patina or not? I must admit, it would be nice to fight rust less. Thanks guys, looking forward to the discussion.
Click to expand...

Virtually all of the things I cut with my pocket knives are dry goods. Shrink wrap, string, tape, clam shell packages, zip ties, etc. I seldom, if ever, use them for food preparation.

Because of this it took a long time for me to form a patina on my pocket knives. Dry goods simply don't induce a patina like food and other moist materials do. I don't carry carbon steel knives anymore for personal reasons but when I did I would use vinegar to induce a patina because it was a long wait otherwise.
 
I made a lot of fruit salad with my GEC Viper. Tastes good, healthy, and the knife looks good.
 
Thanks for all the help guys! I went ahead and put my knife in vinigar this afternoon for about 15 minutes. Ended up nice but extremely dark, kind of hope it lightens up a bit. One person said here the patina would change over time and use so I just decided to put a little but on there now to get it even and help with the rust issue. Very excited to have this knife in my pocket, slim and easy to carry but has one beast of a blade, really nice to use.
 
If you put on a quick patina using vinegar, a fair amount of that will just wipe right off with a paper towel. It will still leave some permanent coloration behind, though. Also, you'll want to touch up the edge a little afterwards since the oxidation affects the cutting surface as well. At least strop the edge.

If you get a chance, take some pics of it for us.
 
lee12 said:
Thanks for all the help guys! I went ahead and put my knife in vinigar this afternoon for about 15 minutes. Ended up nice but extremely dark, kind of hope it lightens up a bit. One person said here the patina would change over time and use so I just decided to put a little but on there now to get it even and help with the rust issue. Very excited to have this knife in my pocket, slim and easy to carry but has one beast of a blade, really nice to use.
Click to expand...

Much of that dark oxide is loosely-bound on the steel, and can be scrubbed off with some baking soda (use a paper towel & some water with it). The light grey remaining, after the really black stuff comes off, is all that's really needed for a protective oxide layer. Given some additional time, that'll also darken up a little bit more.

My 6375 CV stockman is pictured below, done with a 50/50 mix of vinegar and HOT water (~170°F or so) by dipping the blade into the hot mix for a minute or two at a time, maybe repeating that 3 or 4 times. When done with that, the blade was BLACK, and I scrubbed the loose stuff off with baking soda, leaving it as it looks here (after stropping, which brightened up the edge).

9KfJq2j.jpg


David
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top