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New knife makers handle question.
- Thread starter rachet197
- Start date
It just depends on the knife. I tend to use stainless pin stock that is peined and ground flush. Lately I use a lot of mosaic pins, which are just slid/tapped in place and rely on the adhesive to hold everything snug. Other than cord wraps I always use a commercial grade adhesive, primarily one of two loctite products. I used to use Depend 330 as my default but have switched to E-120HP recently and am really liking it. The 330 is anaerobic and uses an activator, it sets up in a bit over a minute so you can't be adjusting things or trying to get it all snugged down for very long. On the other hand, it sets up in about a minute 
You can glue a knife handle and go get lunch, come back and start working on it some more. The E-120HP is a lot easier to work with, and I think it makes it much easier to get a nice snug joint, but it is a more traditional epoxy with a two hour working time and about 12 hours before you want to mess with it at all. In both cases the adhesive is the primary attachment method, the pins just provide some extra support or aesthetics. With the peined rods they provide a fair bit of hold on their own, but I consider it secondary to the adhesive I use. Obviously the straight walled mosaic pins provide no real hold at all if there was no adhesive used.
I also like Corby bolts and the similar products, but if you don't have the right drill bit to make the counter sunk holes in your scales they can be a pain to get centered properly. I do some cord wrap, using a simple wrap style where a loop under the wrap is used to pull the tag end underneath and secure it. I generally do NOT epoxy or otherwise "fix" my cord wraps. The user is free to unwrap and rewrap with whatever they want, or make use of the cord in an emergency.
You can glue a knife handle and go get lunch, come back and start working on it some more. The E-120HP is a lot easier to work with, and I think it makes it much easier to get a nice snug joint, but it is a more traditional epoxy with a two hour working time and about 12 hours before you want to mess with it at all. In both cases the adhesive is the primary attachment method, the pins just provide some extra support or aesthetics. With the peined rods they provide a fair bit of hold on their own, but I consider it secondary to the adhesive I use. Obviously the straight walled mosaic pins provide no real hold at all if there was no adhesive used.I also like Corby bolts and the similar products, but if you don't have the right drill bit to make the counter sunk holes in your scales they can be a pain to get centered properly. I do some cord wrap, using a simple wrap style where a loop under the wrap is used to pull the tag end underneath and secure it. I generally do NOT epoxy or otherwise "fix" my cord wraps. The user is free to unwrap and rewrap with whatever they want, or make use of the cord in an emergency.
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2006
- Messages
- 1,363
My First suggestion is to fill out your profile a little more accurately.
You can get a ton of info here.
BTW what is your skill level?
You can get a ton of info here.
BTW what is your skill level?
Last edited:
By profile do you mean grind?
My first knife, so I am not terribly skilled, how ever I am good with a bench/angle grinder.
Also does any one use rivets or just pins?
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2009
- Messages
- 1,008
By profile he means your bladeforums profile, with your information that is accurate so we can better help you based on your skill level and location. There could be a master smith a block away who is bored and thinking he should be teaching someone like you.
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2006
- Messages
- 1,363
Hi Rachet
In your profile on Blade forums you have a "About Me" section. General location like what state you live in. Type of work you do for a living can give people answering your questions help on what kind of answers to give.
I use Loveless type Screws for Work knives . They are very reliable and are not hard to install.
For handle material normally stabilized woods and rose woods.
Also there is a lot of Great information in the stickies at the top of the page.
Good Luck,
In your profile on Blade forums you have a "About Me" section. General location like what state you live in. Type of work you do for a living can give people answering your questions help on what kind of answers to give.
I use Loveless type Screws for Work knives . They are very reliable and are not hard to install.
For handle material normally stabilized woods and rose woods.
Also there is a lot of Great information in the stickies at the top of the page.
Good Luck,
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2009
- Messages
- 21,855
I'm not sure if I hit you with this yet or not, have a look here
I've put this together to answer most of a new makers questions on how to make a knife. I'm sure it will help you too. How to Instructions for making a Knife.
The Count's Standard Reply to New Knifemakers V22
The answer to a 13 year old student is different than to a 40 year old engineer.
We may recommend a local supplier, you may have a helpful neighbour, or local Hammerin; but that depends on where you are. We have members worldwide.
Please fill out your profile with your location (Country, State, City), age, education, employment, hobbies.
Look at the threads stickied at the top; many are expired, but not all.
The basic process in the simplest terms
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF-Right Click and Save
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Website
Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E. Apelt
The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF
Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-PDF
http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm
Books
A list of books and videos
BladeForums - E-books or Google books
I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
These are clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive too.
Knife Design:
Think thin. A paring knife slices, an axe doesn't.
Forget swords, Saw-tooth spines, guthooks, crazy grinds and folders for your first knife.
Start with a drawing.
Show it to us, we love to see and comment on photos.
Then make a cardboard cutout template & draw in handles, pins and such
Then make it in wood, paint sticks are free & close to the right size.
Play with that and see if it feels right. If it feels right it usually looks right
How to post a photo on BF
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...AL-Displaying-your-photographs-on-BladeForums
See the Google books thread for Lloyd Harding drawings, the Loveless book & Bob Engnath Patterns. Google books thread
Bob Engnath Patterns compiled into a PDF
Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith
An excellent modern book with colour photos for forging in general - no knifemaking.
Jim Hrisoulas- has 3 books on forging knives. Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel
Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF
The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable -1885-PDF
Right Click and save link as.
Its being reprinted now; you can get it for $20 ish
The $50 knife Shop
It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can just file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)
Forget the Goop Quench.
Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type; even grocery store canola oil works much better for some steels.
Junkyard steels require skill and experience to identify the steel and heat treat it properly.
Forget about Lawnmower blades and start with a new known steel type.
Good heat treating needs accurate temperature control and full quench.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply.
I like cable damascus, but that advanced project has no place in a beginners book.
The grinders are the best thing about this book, but there is a huge amount of info for 2x72 belt grinders on the web, including free plans.
Videos
Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days.
Safety-video
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days.
Many specific how to knifemaking videos are available, some are better than others.
The best overall Knifemaking video I have seen is
Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter
Basic Bladesmithing
"Ed Caffrey - Basic Bladesmithing-Full DVD-ISO"
The best video on leather sheath making for beginners that I have seen is
Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose
-(Paul Long has 2 videos, his sheath work & videos are fantastic, but more advanced-with inlays, machine stitchers..)
Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
Use a piece of known steel, not a file. I just post this as an example of doing it by hand with few tools.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.
Be sure to look at the other titles too-The account index has disappeared, but search for LOTS of info. Use the keywords LurkerLurker torrent knifemakerC torrent and others
Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB
How to download that video
http://www.utorrent.com/help/guides/beginners-guide
You can see a list of videos and reviews at this rental company; some are worth buying, some renting
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking
Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish
Steel
The welding steel at Home Depot / Lowes is useless for knives.
Forget about lawnmower blades ,files and other unknown junkyard steels.
For all the work involved, it is very cheap to buy and use a known good steel.
If you send out for heat treating, you can use
Oil quenched O1, 1095, 1084
Or air quenched A2, CM154, ATS34, CPM154, 440C, plus many others.
For heat treating yourself with minimal equipment, find some Eutectoid steel.
1084FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated for Knifemaking, Cheapest & made for DIY heat-treat.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Phone # 862-203-8160
1095 is a good carbon steel, but a bad choice for a beginner with limited equipment.
1095 is "Hypereutectioid" and needs very precise temperature control and proper fast quench oil Like Parks 50 or Houghton K Kevin Cashen - 1095 - hypereutectoid steel
If you are sending one or 2 knives out for heat treatment, use 154-CM or CPM-154 and ship it out to TKS -Texas Knifemaker Supply
It's the cheapest way to do 1 or 2 because of HT minimum charges.
You can find a list of suppliers here
Heat Treating
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7
You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.
Air Hardening Stainless Steel Only
Buck Pau Bos -Be sure to check the Shipping and Price tabs.
http://www.buckknives.com/index.cfm?event=bio.paulBos#
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services
Oil Hardening Carbon Steels and Air Hardening Stainless Steel
http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)
Quenchants for Oil hardening steel
Forget the Goop Quench.
Forget used motor oil, it's toxic and doesn't work that well.
Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type;
Even grocery store canola oil works well enough for your first knife-if you use the right steel.
Brine and water are almost free, and technically correct for W1 and "water hardening" steels but a fast oil like Parks 50 and Houghton Houghto Quench K are less likely to give you broken blades.
If you use water or brine, expect to have a cracked or broken blade.
Search the work "tink" for more info
Glue Epoxy
Use a Fresh package of slow setting, high strength epoxy to attach blades to handles and well as seal out moisture.
Surface Prep is vital, drill tang holes/ grind a hollow, roughen the surfaces with abrasive, blasting is best.
Ensure the surface is clean & no oil including fingerprints. Soap, Acetone & Alcohol, Blasting.
Clamp with moderate pressure= avoid a glue starved joint when all the adhesive is squeezed out.
These are well proven.
Brownell's Acraglas
West Systems G Flex
JB Weld
Grinder / Tools
In my opinion, variable speed and a small wheel attachment are essential on a good grinder.
You can almost always improve tracking with more belt tension. It needs to be way tighter than you first think.
Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.
Files can be made from unhardenable steel, or steel similar to 1095 that needs a difficult HT
Just use 1084 instead of a file.
Photo of a nice bevel filing jig
Entry Level Grinders
Many makers start with the Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder
Low Speed Modification Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder
Commercial Production 2 x 72 Belt Grinder Reviews
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders
http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCKnifeMakingGrinders.htm
Mapp arm Grinder Toolrest
DIY 2 x 72 Belt Grinders
KMG Clone Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf
NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html
EERF Grinder (EERF =Free backwards)
http://wilmontgrinders.com/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html
Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html
What Belts to buy?
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/abrasive-belt-basics-what-kind-should-i-buy-p-1393.html
Safety Equipment
Protect your -Eyes, Ears, Fingers, and Lungs remove jewellery and put on safety gear.
Respirators
Chronic lung disease and cancer really suck the joy out of life.
Don't believe me? google "Ed Caffrey lung cancer" and see what he has to say about it.
The minimum I would consider are the 3M 7500 and North 7700 silicone half masks with a P100 Filter.
Use a VOC & P100 combo cartridge for protection against acetone and solvents.
There are also prefilters that snap over the main filter for longer life.
For beards, pick one of these
3M PAPR
Resp-O-Rator
3m Breathe Easy
Trend Airshield Pro
Air Cap II
Searching
Search works for ALL users, even unpaid users.
Try it, Ill bet youre not the first to ask the question here
This is a special Google page that searches BF only & works better than the forum search.
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra
V22 Dec 1, 2011.
I've put this together to answer most of a new makers questions on how to make a knife. I'm sure it will help you too. How to Instructions for making a Knife.
The Count's Standard Reply to New Knifemakers V22
The answer to a 13 year old student is different than to a 40 year old engineer.
We may recommend a local supplier, you may have a helpful neighbour, or local Hammerin; but that depends on where you are. We have members worldwide.
Please fill out your profile with your location (Country, State, City), age, education, employment, hobbies.
Look at the threads stickied at the top; many are expired, but not all.
The basic process in the simplest terms
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF-Right Click and Save
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Website
Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E. Apelt
The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF
Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-PDF
http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm
Books
A list of books and videos
BladeForums - E-books or Google books
I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
These are clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive too.
Knife Design:
Think thin. A paring knife slices, an axe doesn't.
Forget swords, Saw-tooth spines, guthooks, crazy grinds and folders for your first knife.
Start with a drawing.
Show it to us, we love to see and comment on photos.
Then make a cardboard cutout template & draw in handles, pins and such
Then make it in wood, paint sticks are free & close to the right size.
Play with that and see if it feels right. If it feels right it usually looks right
How to post a photo on BF
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...AL-Displaying-your-photographs-on-BladeForums
See the Google books thread for Lloyd Harding drawings, the Loveless book & Bob Engnath Patterns. Google books thread
Bob Engnath Patterns compiled into a PDF
Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith
An excellent modern book with colour photos for forging in general - no knifemaking.
Jim Hrisoulas- has 3 books on forging knives. Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel
Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF
The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable -1885-PDF
Right Click and save link as.
Its being reprinted now; you can get it for $20 ish
The $50 knife Shop
It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can just file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)
Forget the Goop Quench.
Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type; even grocery store canola oil works much better for some steels.
Junkyard steels require skill and experience to identify the steel and heat treat it properly.
Forget about Lawnmower blades and start with a new known steel type.
Good heat treating needs accurate temperature control and full quench.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply.
I like cable damascus, but that advanced project has no place in a beginners book.
The grinders are the best thing about this book, but there is a huge amount of info for 2x72 belt grinders on the web, including free plans.
Videos
Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days.
Safety-video
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days.
Many specific how to knifemaking videos are available, some are better than others.
The best overall Knifemaking video I have seen is
Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter
Basic Bladesmithing
"Ed Caffrey - Basic Bladesmithing-Full DVD-ISO"
The best video on leather sheath making for beginners that I have seen is
Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose
-(Paul Long has 2 videos, his sheath work & videos are fantastic, but more advanced-with inlays, machine stitchers..)
Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
Use a piece of known steel, not a file. I just post this as an example of doing it by hand with few tools.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.
Be sure to look at the other titles too-The account index has disappeared, but search for LOTS of info. Use the keywords LurkerLurker torrent knifemakerC torrent and others
Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB
How to download that video
http://www.utorrent.com/help/guides/beginners-guide
You can see a list of videos and reviews at this rental company; some are worth buying, some renting
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking
Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish
Steel
The welding steel at Home Depot / Lowes is useless for knives.
Forget about lawnmower blades ,files and other unknown junkyard steels.
For all the work involved, it is very cheap to buy and use a known good steel.
If you send out for heat treating, you can use
Oil quenched O1, 1095, 1084
Or air quenched A2, CM154, ATS34, CPM154, 440C, plus many others.
For heat treating yourself with minimal equipment, find some Eutectoid steel.
1084FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated for Knifemaking, Cheapest & made for DIY heat-treat.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Phone # 862-203-8160
1095 is a good carbon steel, but a bad choice for a beginner with limited equipment.
1095 is "Hypereutectioid" and needs very precise temperature control and proper fast quench oil Like Parks 50 or Houghton K Kevin Cashen - 1095 - hypereutectoid steel
If you are sending one or 2 knives out for heat treatment, use 154-CM or CPM-154 and ship it out to TKS -Texas Knifemaker Supply
It's the cheapest way to do 1 or 2 because of HT minimum charges.
You can find a list of suppliers here
Heat Treating
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7
You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.
Air Hardening Stainless Steel Only
Buck Pau Bos -Be sure to check the Shipping and Price tabs.
http://www.buckknives.com/index.cfm?event=bio.paulBos#
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services
Oil Hardening Carbon Steels and Air Hardening Stainless Steel
http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)
Quenchants for Oil hardening steel
Forget the Goop Quench.
Forget used motor oil, it's toxic and doesn't work that well.
Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type;
Even grocery store canola oil works well enough for your first knife-if you use the right steel.
Brine and water are almost free, and technically correct for W1 and "water hardening" steels but a fast oil like Parks 50 and Houghton Houghto Quench K are less likely to give you broken blades.
If you use water or brine, expect to have a cracked or broken blade.
Search the work "tink" for more info
Glue Epoxy
Use a Fresh package of slow setting, high strength epoxy to attach blades to handles and well as seal out moisture.
Surface Prep is vital, drill tang holes/ grind a hollow, roughen the surfaces with abrasive, blasting is best.
Ensure the surface is clean & no oil including fingerprints. Soap, Acetone & Alcohol, Blasting.
Clamp with moderate pressure= avoid a glue starved joint when all the adhesive is squeezed out.
These are well proven.
Brownell's Acraglas
West Systems G Flex
JB Weld
Grinder / Tools
In my opinion, variable speed and a small wheel attachment are essential on a good grinder.
You can almost always improve tracking with more belt tension. It needs to be way tighter than you first think.
Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.
Files can be made from unhardenable steel, or steel similar to 1095 that needs a difficult HT
Just use 1084 instead of a file.
Photo of a nice bevel filing jig
Entry Level Grinders
Many makers start with the Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder
Low Speed Modification Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder
Commercial Production 2 x 72 Belt Grinder Reviews
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders
http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCKnifeMakingGrinders.htm
Mapp arm Grinder Toolrest
DIY 2 x 72 Belt Grinders
KMG Clone Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf
NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html
EERF Grinder (EERF =Free backwards)
http://wilmontgrinders.com/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html
Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html
What Belts to buy?
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/abrasive-belt-basics-what-kind-should-i-buy-p-1393.html
Safety Equipment
Protect your -Eyes, Ears, Fingers, and Lungs remove jewellery and put on safety gear.
Respirators
Chronic lung disease and cancer really suck the joy out of life.
Don't believe me? google "Ed Caffrey lung cancer" and see what he has to say about it.
The minimum I would consider are the 3M 7500 and North 7700 silicone half masks with a P100 Filter.
Use a VOC & P100 combo cartridge for protection against acetone and solvents.
There are also prefilters that snap over the main filter for longer life.
For beards, pick one of these
3M PAPR
Resp-O-Rator
3m Breathe Easy
Trend Airshield Pro
Air Cap II
Searching
Search works for ALL users, even unpaid users.
Try it, Ill bet youre not the first to ask the question here
This is a special Google page that searches BF only & works better than the forum search.
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra
V22 Dec 1, 2011.