New knife, need help

F

facewizard13

Joined
Jun 29, 2015
Messages
62
I recently purchased an ESEE 5 for work, and I also bought the tuff cloth kit to go along with it. night before last, before work, I applied a heavy coating to the blade and let it sit on it's box until it dried. I went to work the next day and put it to normal everyday pocket knife use. this includes cutting boxes, cutting open cryovac meat, and plastic cable ties. Before my lunch break I rinsed off the knife in our sink, dried it with a clean dry towel, stuck it in the sheath, and headed toi lunch. After I came back from lunch, one of my co-workers wanted to check out my new knife, so I showed it off to him. When I pulled the knife out of my sheath I noticed tiny rust spots all along the edge and shoulders of the blade! Surely these knifes don't rust this easily? I was very dissapointed upon this discovery because I was using it to open packages of raw meat. Help me out here, does 1095 have to be babied that much? Did the coating come off from cutting cardboard?

**I should also mention the knife was pretty dull to begin with. It wouldn't cut copy paper**
 
That's unusual.

Maybe instead of water, wipe it down with an oily cloth? Not the best option, I know....

No, Good 1095 should not need to be babied like that. What is your environment, heavy dampness or salt?

Steel wool the rust off and see if it continues rusting so quickly. Something else may be at work in this case. Last ditch, I'd contact ESSE about it. You might need a replacement. I certainly wouldn't contend with such a thing---I'd hate to be married to a Tuff Cloth.

Try some car wax now and then...see if that doesn't retard it a bit??

Maybe someone will post who has encountered such a situation.
 
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aquaman67 said:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/562255-1095-steel-and-rust
Click to expand...

Interesting and thanks....

I especially like RAT's copout of "Otherwise, do like we do and just use the knife and not worry about a little bit of rust since it does not hurt the blade in any manner, nor does a little bit of rust on the edge hurt you if you cut up food with your knife."

Sheesh....time for me to re-think ESSE. I guess all of my 1095 blades are superior to theirs. I don't encounter such a problem.
 
The environment is a temperature controlled room for cutting meat, usually kept at 55 degrees or less. Air is constantly circulated so I dont think humidity is a problem. When I open the cryovac packs of meat, I rubbed the knife off on my sleeve before putting it in the sheath, so as to not let it sit with blood drying on it in the sheath. The whole purpose of this knife, especially with the plastic kydex sheath, was to be able to take the entire thing and rinse it all off in the sink for easy cleaning.

I'm tempted to give it another coat with the tuff cloth and use it again today, but i've got to leave for work in less than an hour.

At this point I'm already considering getting my money back and goin with a different steel.
 
Take the knife and stick it in an orange overnight.
1095 will get a patina.
It will look grey and blotchy, but it will help with rust alot.
I bet the rust you got was from tiny drops of water getting stuck in the grains.
 
This knife comes in contact with raw food a lot, i'm not sure if i should be using it if it rusts this easily
 
facewizard13 said:
The environment is a temperature controlled room for cutting meat, usually kept at 55 degrees or less. Air is constantly circulated so I dont think humidity is a problem. When I open the cryovac packs of meat, I rubbed the knife off on my sleeve before putting it in the sheath, so as to not let it sit with blood drying on it in the sheath. The whole purpose of this knife, especially with the plastic kydex sheath, was to be able to take the entire thing and rinse it all off in the sink for easy cleaning.

I'm tempted to give it another coat with the tuff cloth and use it again today, but i've got to leave for work in less than an hour.

At this point I'm already considering getting my money back and goin with a different steel.
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Actually I meant what is the environment around the plant....i.e. where you live.

With all due respect, yeah...I'd get another knife. Don't be turned off by 1095 though. It's a good steel and you can find one that won't be such a problem. Too many butchers have posted here who use 1095 successfully. Best of luck wid' it.
 
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facewizard13 said:
The whole purpose of this knife, especially with the plastic kydex sheath, was to be able to take the entire thing and rinse it all off in the sink for easy cleaning.
Click to expand...
If you rinsed off the sheath there may have been moisture left inside that cause the rust.

What color are the rust spots?

The ESEE 4 that I had developed patina on the edge after sitting in the sheath for a little while. Same with a Scrapyard Scrapivore is SR101. With each, the color was blackish.
 
I am a Butcher by trade and I have used 1095crovan (Becker BK15) regularly as my boning knife and occasionally a BK5 just to see how it would handle a heavy meat scenario. Both are stripped of coating on the blade and left on under under the scales.

I noticed some light rust my first time around, but nothing a wet down and wipe with water and paper towel didn't take care of. On top of that, pork blood and meat give surprisingly little patina, so it took some usage at the house to establish a decent patina to offer some protection. 1095crovan is a fantastic steel for food usage and I will Swear by my 15 as a superior product as my boning knife in Any plant/shop up next to any Dexter russel, montana, or any of the other food production knives commonly used.

I will edit to show a photo of my BK15 after about a year of breaking down pork loins, shoulders, hams as well as capping beef top rounds, and pulling the skin off of skirts, flaps and flanks.

Edit: before you put your knife away, wipe it down with a mineral oiled rag/paper towel. Skip the car wax and any ither chemical or non USDA approved item. Save yourself the headache. Try explaining that the tub of mothers car wax is for your carbon steel (non stainless) knife to a USDA inspector when they are 10 hours into a 12 hour shift...

Plus mineral oil works Great and is non toxic, food safe and won't co rancid or sour.
 
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Buy an esee 4 in 440c...

You lose 3/4" blade length, but 4.5" should still be plenty for what you've described as its use, and you will certainly not have any rust issues...
 
facewizard13 said:
I recently purchased an ESEE 5 for work, and I also bought the tuff cloth kit to go along with it. night before last, before work, I applied a heavy coating to the blade and let it sit on it's box until it dried. I went to work the next day and put it to normal everyday pocket knife use. this includes cutting boxes, cutting open cryovac meat, and plastic cable ties. Before my lunch break I rinsed off the knife in our sink, dried it with a clean dry towel, stuck it in the sheath, and headed toi lunch. After I came back from lunch, one of my co-workers wanted to check out my new knife, so I showed it off to him. When I pulled the knife out of my sheath I noticed tiny rust spots all along the edge and shoulders of the blade! Surely these knifes don't rust this easily? I was very dissapointed upon this discovery because I was using it to open packages of raw meat. Help me out here, does 1095 have to be babied that much? Did the coating come off from cutting cardboard?

**I should also mention the knife was pretty dull to begin with. It wouldn't cut copy paper**
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For starters, no offence, but your choice of knife is ridiculous for the task you want it for. The Esee 5 is basically a sharpened pry bar and its cutting geometry is no where near suited to the tasks you describe. You should pick something with much thinner stock for starters. Second, for your described uses, a stainless knife would be much better suited. You are cutting meat which is full of salt and will promote rust.

If you want to stick with Esee, I would go with the Esee 4 in 440C stainless and even that is over built for your purposes imo. Esee's were designed as over built survival bush knives. Not that they can't be use in a meat packing plant but, they would not be my first choice for that application. 1/4" and 3/16" blades are not needed for your application and will only hinder cutting performance imo.
 
Esee 5 was never intended to cut paper. So I would not be discouraged about that. It is a working knife and yes 1095 can rust, I do not look at my Esee knives the same as my CRK's. What you see as a tad of rust does nothing to inhibit performance from the knife, its not like a 1970's automobile and will wilt away in a few years, it is part of its nature. I welcome a rust spot here or there not an issue as these guys were never meant to stay pretty forever. Many would like that if possible including myself but think about old paint on a painters drop cloth, it is a sign he has a real trade.

Good Luck, It is a fine knife that will prove itself over time. TD
 
1095 does not contain chromium so if you did not completely dry the blade off rust will happen. Make sure to keep the Esse dry and oiled. If you see rust spots, no big deal just buy a tube of Flitz. Apply a touch of it in a q-tip and wipe the surface rust away.

I really like the qualities of 1095, 52100 and A2. Sometimes after hiking in wet or humid conditions, I notice some corrosion. Flitz or some 000 Steel wool does the job.
 
Look into the Bradford Guardian series, or the Benchmade Hunt line. I wouldnt use a stainless esee only the 1095 models. Look at the Spyderco Bradley Bowie.
 
what drove me to purchase this knife in particular was because of the thick blade. I was wanting something that could be really strong and lasted a long time.

my main concern with rust on the blade is that sometimes i cut products directly in front of customers and i don't want it to become a health and safety issue. i'd hate to spend $200 plus on a knife and then have to be told that i cant use it at work.

i have been using a spyderco paramilitary 2 with s30v for the past year doing the exact same tasks and it works just fine. i wanted to get a fixed blade with a sheath because if i had bloody gloves on i would be able to grab for my knife without getting blood and stuff on my pants pocket.

any other suggestions as far as blade steels/geometry/thickness/blade shape that would be ideal for what im wanting to do? a thinner blade might be better for making a good cut of meat for a customer, but im just worried about losing strength.
 
Try forcing patina with vinegar - it worked great on super blue Spyderco (took some 15 minutes - I used a painting brush as I did not want to immerse the knife because of the pivot). The patina seemed rather chmically and mechanically stable and looked nice too (deep dark grey).
 
You shouldn't be using a knife with a chemical coating to cut food either. If a small piece of that coating makes into someone's dinner, you might be getting into some kind of serious trouble. I've seen a lot of butchering and most people used a knife that was old school 1095 with a nice dark patina. Beef has a lot of blood, and blood has a lot of salt and that is what gives you rust. If you are in a controlled environment, you might consider a dedicated butcher knife that is NSF certified. Also, consider something with a thin blade. You might want to search for dedicated butcher knives, I wouldn't be too confident in a butcher using a bushcrafting knife to cut meat I am buying at a store. Save the ESEE for your days off. Get something for your job that will perform, and that meets health codes.
 
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