I got into these knives around last september of last year. I wanted a tough camping knife that I could use for everything and have it last. I got hooked on these knives and tried to order a howling rat and a camp tramp only to discover that they were not offered at that time. However, the new line was coming out in February. I checked the website every day in Feb. and march and finally got sick of it, and I recently remembered and looked on the site. No new line? Is something wrong here? This is kind of ridiculous. What is the story here? Should I move on and get something else???
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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
NEW LINE??? Am i missing something?
- Thread starter makey98
- Start date
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- Feb 17, 2006
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- 5,822
Makey98, the new line has just recently started to come out . First Rat out is the Mischief-6 or M-6 , as far as I know there are some left at the store, go to this store link not the old outdated one. Hope this helps and hang around...Rats are worth the wait and more are to come.:thumbup:
https://www.shop.ratknives.com/splashPage.hg
https://www.shop.ratknives.com/splashPage.hg
Eric Isaacson
Pirate
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- Dec 19, 1999
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- 12,547
The new line was introduced and pics of it can be seen here http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=408161&highlight=mojo however all the knives are not yet available. The first one on sale is the M6 and can be seen and ordered at the link that Westlen provided
I hope you stick around and join in our discussions and welcome to the Rat Nest
I hope you stick around and join in our discussions and welcome to the Rat Nest
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2006
- Messages
- 11,712
Makey98, welcome to the swamp!!! Remember: patience is a virtue, and it's never been more of one than when you're waiting on a Swamp Rat or a Busse. Nevertheless, they are worth the wait. And if you can't, you may get lucky with that well-known auction site.
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2003
- Messages
- 58
This is a great way to lose market share: alienate your established customer base and confuse the new prospective customers. There are a lot of alternative knive makers out there. The guys at Busse and Swamprat just don't seem to get it. You just can't leave a void in your sales channel -- especially when your only channel is direct sales -- for six months or more and expect customers to remain loyal.
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2006
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- 14,591
This has been discussed repeatedly on various forums, as new (or old) customers express their frustration, and other folks rush to defend Jerry. The short summary is that, despite what some may think, Jerry has apparently decided that this business model works for him and his companies. No doubt some potential customers give up and move on, but MANY others are happy to wait for the promised steel.
So, please, pull up a chair, relax, shoot the shit with us, chase knives on the Exchange, and wait a little while. Won't be more than 'two weeks'.......or is it going to be in February?
- Joined
- May 18, 2005
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- 23,046
They get it just fine, and I don't see them having a hard time selling knives.
What some people don't get, is that Busse & Swamp Rat are not massive corporations like many other companies. People who want them to shoot themselves in the foot by expanding production don't get it, and likely never will.
The current system keeps wait times down by offering fewer models at a time, & the knives retain their values- usually they increase in value.
If they were offering the full lines for ordering you would end up seeing 4+ year long wait times, like Randall Made knives. When faced with that choice, I very much prefer the current system. If you think about it a little bit you will agree.
If not, go and buy something else.:thumbup:
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- 5,789
In that span of time, there would have had been several "Extravaganzaaa's" where you could have purchased all the Ham 'n Cheese that your CC can handle...
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2003
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- 3,049
you probably cant do that with a gap clothing, ford motors new line of vehicles, or cokes new brand of cola - but you can with this type of custom/production knife.
not everyone, but enough to make it well worth staying in bussiness. and having everyone wouldnt make it worth it because of the stress and work involved.
does randal knives advertise anywhere?
Walking Man
BANNED
- Joined
- May 28, 2003
- Messages
- 9,606
Hey guys.
Jennifer JUST had a baby! I think everyone needs to chill out and let mama do her thing. (including releasing a new folder....
)
Jennifer JUST had a baby! I think everyone needs to chill out and let mama do her thing. (including releasing a new folder....
)
Eric Isaacson
Pirate
- Joined
- Dec 19, 1999
- Messages
- 12,547
It seems like you have a way of always being involved in this so called "controversy" . I don't find it to be a controversy, and since I am directly involved with the sales of the knives you'd think I'd be the one that is upset.
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2006
- Messages
- 880
As a new guy to the Busse product line bear with my noobiness. It took me a while to figure out how the whole one at a time thing worked but now I am ok with it. Plus, I called the shop the other day about a possible warranty item and was talking to Jerry directly. I personally will always prefer to deal with a company that is as straight shooting as I found Jerry to be. It may take longer to get your blade, but well worth it in the end. Don't go big business on us, Jerry and Jennifer!
Eric, please be assured, I am not upset and I'm glad you're good too. It certainly seems there is a controversy of sorts when there are so many posts/threads by so many different posters, all with the same observations. You've participated in these threads and you must realize something is amiss. Instead of becoming defensive and sniping at the messengers, maybe you could communicate with Jerry and let him know what's going on. Maybe he would rethink his business practices, maybe not.
It is his way of doing business that frustrates so many people. I have read, and I'm sure you have too, that many BladeForum members would not buy anything from Lynn Thompson (Cold Steel) because of his boastful advertising. I'll bet he has lost a lot of potential customers becasue he acts like a goof. It seems many people believe, as I do, that Jerry is manipulating the market by restricting supply to drive prices up. It doesn't matter if that's true or not because it's the perception that gives people a bad taste in their mouth and, I suspect sends buyers like me to the competition.
Rat Finklestein, in his always spirited, energetic, and usually and testy defense of the Busse companies, has pointed out that the Busse operation is small and manfacturing resources limited. I'll bet the operations of Bud Nealy, Al Polkowski, Bob Dozier, and Ken Brock, who is a part-time maker, are small too. However, there is no anger or frustration when dealing with them. These guys are talented, well respected knifemakers. They all have a fixed product line from which a customer can order and they will make a custom piece as well. I waited at least 13 months for my first Polkowski because Al had hurt his back and couldn't stand for the long periods of time necessary to make a knife. Al's operation must be small. For my Doziers and my single Brock knife, I waited four months or so. No big deal. Everyone knows these are small operations and waiting is part of the price we willingly pay for one of these maker's knives. With Busse knives however, they are unwilling to even let their customers know what their production schedule is. I believe they want to keep their customers in the dark and hungry. You know, keep them wondering and waiting and when we finally make a knife available, they'll be willing to pay more for the piece. I cannot respect these business practices.
I have called the Busse shop, store, whatever, with sincere interest in placing an order, and asked about what was available and what would be available and, I swear to God, the lady I spoke with said she didn't know what the production schedule was. When I asked how an interested buyer could determine whether Busse had any knives of interest, and again, I swear this is true, she said I would just have to keep visiting the website. Have these folks no concept of competition and customer goodwill? This is no way to run a railroad!!! Someone here was delusional and it wasn't me. In retrospect, I should have asked which of the many non-functional websites I should visit.
I am sure that Jerry Busse is a fine fellow and I'm sure he is a great knifemaker. I know he has a great following of supporters. (How do you spell cult?) But, you knew there was a "but" coming, I like many others are turned off by what appears to be some pretty goofy business practices.
Regarding the "controversy" Eric, if it walks, talks and quacks like a duck, and please believe me when I tell you this, it aint a hog or a rat!
It is his way of doing business that frustrates so many people. I have read, and I'm sure you have too, that many BladeForum members would not buy anything from Lynn Thompson (Cold Steel) because of his boastful advertising. I'll bet he has lost a lot of potential customers becasue he acts like a goof. It seems many people believe, as I do, that Jerry is manipulating the market by restricting supply to drive prices up. It doesn't matter if that's true or not because it's the perception that gives people a bad taste in their mouth and, I suspect sends buyers like me to the competition.
Rat Finklestein, in his always spirited, energetic, and usually and testy defense of the Busse companies, has pointed out that the Busse operation is small and manfacturing resources limited. I'll bet the operations of Bud Nealy, Al Polkowski, Bob Dozier, and Ken Brock, who is a part-time maker, are small too. However, there is no anger or frustration when dealing with them. These guys are talented, well respected knifemakers. They all have a fixed product line from which a customer can order and they will make a custom piece as well. I waited at least 13 months for my first Polkowski because Al had hurt his back and couldn't stand for the long periods of time necessary to make a knife. Al's operation must be small. For my Doziers and my single Brock knife, I waited four months or so. No big deal. Everyone knows these are small operations and waiting is part of the price we willingly pay for one of these maker's knives. With Busse knives however, they are unwilling to even let their customers know what their production schedule is. I believe they want to keep their customers in the dark and hungry. You know, keep them wondering and waiting and when we finally make a knife available, they'll be willing to pay more for the piece. I cannot respect these business practices.
I have called the Busse shop, store, whatever, with sincere interest in placing an order, and asked about what was available and what would be available and, I swear to God, the lady I spoke with said she didn't know what the production schedule was. When I asked how an interested buyer could determine whether Busse had any knives of interest, and again, I swear this is true, she said I would just have to keep visiting the website. Have these folks no concept of competition and customer goodwill? This is no way to run a railroad!!! Someone here was delusional and it wasn't me. In retrospect, I should have asked which of the many non-functional websites I should visit.
I am sure that Jerry Busse is a fine fellow and I'm sure he is a great knifemaker. I know he has a great following of supporters. (How do you spell cult?) But, you knew there was a "but" coming, I like many others are turned off by what appears to be some pretty goofy business practices.
Regarding the "controversy" Eric, if it walks, talks and quacks like a duck, and please believe me when I tell you this, it aint a hog or a rat!
Eric Isaacson
Pirate
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- Dec 19, 1999
- Messages
- 12,547
Call it a controversy if you like. I'll tell you what I know, everytime your so called "controversy" comes up on the forums Swamp Rat sales increase. So if anyone is reading or participating in this thread in order to hurt our sales it appears to be having the opposite affect. Go Figure, I guess I should fuel your so called "controversy"
Busse and Swamp Rat SUCK!!! Jerry Busse is a poor businessman and Eric Is an IDIOT!!!!
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2006
- Messages
- 1,650
Too long for a Busse? Jerry runs lots of knives for military ops all over the world (just look around for military overruns). We are lucky to get ANY! We are not privy to military needs.
Yes...his lousy business practices are the reason his knives are so great, so desirable, and in demand by civies and militaries the world over. It is why people crash his web site looking for new releases. PLEASE find another maker for yourself so we pigs have less competition for the GW's and BM's.
What would you have said about a katana made in traditional style that takes years to make one? WAAAAAAAHHH!
Yes...his lousy business practices are the reason his knives are so great, so desirable, and in demand by civies and militaries the world over
. It is why people crash his web site looking for new releases. PLEASE find another maker for yourself so we pigs have less competition for the GW's and BM's.What would you have said about a katana made in traditional style that takes years to make one? WAAAAAAAHHH!
Hello agan Eric,
I am not participating in this or any thread to hurt Busse's sales or business. I have pointed our concerns I have with the Busse companies. I think I have been objective in my observations and those observations have been expressed by many. The post I made above pretty much said it all and without rancor.
In other threads I have praised Jerry Busse's designs and the obvious quality of his work. I wouldn't do that if I was trying to be being hurtful.
The thread I started regarding the relationship between Swamp Rat and the Ontario RAT line was a legitimate inquiry. I was curious about how those who own both lines feel about them. These kinds of comparisons take place all over these forums. I posted the question on the Swamp Rat forums because I thought Swamp Rat had a model similar to the RAT3. If there was a TOP's forum on BladeForums, I would have posed a similar question there. I did get useful responses from other posters who did not feel I had some ulterior motive and I appreciate those responses. Were just guys talking here man. I was respectful and treated with respect. I have no vested interest in Ontario or the RAT line. I'm just a satisfied owner and seek to share what I think is a pretty solid line of knives for reasonable money and, as I said, get a feel for how Swamp Rat owners felt about the two lines. I had no ulterior motive what-so-ever.
You seem like an intelligent young man Eric. I am sorry you have viewed my inquiry as an attempt to hurt you. I'm going to remove myself from my so called "controversy" and going forward, just to show my heart's in the right place, I will not comment further on these forums about the, well, you know, the "controversy." I wish you well.
I am not participating in this or any thread to hurt Busse's sales or business. I have pointed our concerns I have with the Busse companies. I think I have been objective in my observations and those observations have been expressed by many. The post I made above pretty much said it all and without rancor.
In other threads I have praised Jerry Busse's designs and the obvious quality of his work. I wouldn't do that if I was trying to be being hurtful.
The thread I started regarding the relationship between Swamp Rat and the Ontario RAT line was a legitimate inquiry. I was curious about how those who own both lines feel about them. These kinds of comparisons take place all over these forums. I posted the question on the Swamp Rat forums because I thought Swamp Rat had a model similar to the RAT3. If there was a TOP's forum on BladeForums, I would have posed a similar question there. I did get useful responses from other posters who did not feel I had some ulterior motive and I appreciate those responses. Were just guys talking here man. I was respectful and treated with respect. I have no vested interest in Ontario or the RAT line. I'm just a satisfied owner and seek to share what I think is a pretty solid line of knives for reasonable money and, as I said, get a feel for how Swamp Rat owners felt about the two lines. I had no ulterior motive what-so-ever.
You seem like an intelligent young man Eric. I am sorry you have viewed my inquiry as an attempt to hurt you. I'm going to remove myself from my so called "controversy" and going forward, just to show my heart's in the right place, I will not comment further on these forums about the, well, you know, the "controversy." I wish you well.
secretagentmann007
Chief wire twister
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2006
- Messages
- 479
well i'm glad i'm too poor to buy a busse knife or i might just have to post somthing spicy! (however i am awaiting an ontario rat 1 folder)