New lock mechanism for folder knive

[Natlek]

I did not invent anything , I find this mechanism in many devices. I know that it is rock solid. What do you think if we used it in a folding knife? We would get excellent proportions of the blade/handle , and very easy to handle ? I have never seen this in any folding knife but that does not mean that it has not already been done .................
If something is not clear, I will explain in more detail how it works

 

[shane45-1911]

Are you talking about something like a quick release mechanism, like this sling swivel (without the big swivel loop, of course)?

While it may work, you would have a button sticking out the side of the knife, where normally there is just a flush pivot screw. It would add width and uncomfortable handle ergonomics, IMO.

 

[Delgadonine]

I think you've reinvented the bottonlock?

 

[Natlek]

Are you talking about something like a quick release mechanism, like this sling swivel (with out the big swivel loop, of course)?

While it may work, you would have a button sticking out the side of the knife, where normally there is just a flush pivot screw. It would add width and uncomfortable handle ergonomics, IMO.

Yes !
Button can be flush with handle , that was not problem .All this can be done in very small space believe me , I see them in some devices .....

 

[shane45-1911]

I see them in some devices .....

Such as?

 

[Natlek]

I think you've reinvented the bottonlock?

What I found about that is not even close to this ? Can you find picture of what is that ?

 

[Natlek]

Such as?

One example would be in old big hard discs ...............in very expensive computers for big companies like banks. I worked on them as operator for about 15 years . When we scrapped them, I took several apart ....

 

[eveled]

In this application the little spring loaded balls would not be an advantage. Just use a spline or a gear. It would lock open and closed and anywhere in between.

 

[Shorttime]

I think you would get some buyers for it. There are always people who are looking for the next new thing. I think eveled is on the right track with making some kind of spline lock, which doesn't have to look like a traditional axle spline, either. The spring arrangement to retain the balls (similar to what you see in a socket wrench) is a lot of little pieces in a small area, and you would end up selling a lot of replacement parts for people who took the thing apart and had springs and lock balls flying off, never to be found again.

Seems to me, the "advantages" (read: selling points) of any new lock are ease of use and it's ability to remain locked under... "persuasive forces". People like the idea that their knife is going to remain locked, no matter what dumbness they try to do with it.

Okay, maybe that's just me, but those "More Proof" videos from Cold Steel seemed like they got around.

You should also take a look at Flavio Ikoma's "Deadbolt" lock.

It's similar to what you're talking about, and it's in production, so you know it works.

If you know a machinist or a mechanical engineer, I would start by talking to them. There's a heck of a lot that has nothing to do with the lock mechanism, and it all has to work together, or it will sink your idea.

If you don't have connections to a machine shop, I would still suggest trying to make some prototypes on your own. Make it out of wood or plastic, if you have to, the important thing is to make sure it works, outside your head. Then, you can get lost in the weeds about things like parts counts, materials selection, and machining cost.

 

[Natlek]

I think you would get some buyers for it. There are always people who are looking for the next new thing. I think eveled is on the right track with making some kind of spline lock, which doesn't have to look like a traditional axle spline, either. The spring arrangement to retain the balls (similar to what you see in a socket wrench) is a lot of little pieces in a small area, and you would end up selling a lot of replacement parts for people who took the thing apart and had springs and lock balls flying off, never to be found again.

Seems to me, the "advantages" (read: selling points) of any new lock are ease of use and it's ability to remain locked under... "persuasive forces". People like the idea that their knife is going to remain locked, no matter what dumbness they try to do with it.

Okay, maybe that's just me, but those "More Proof" videos from Cold Steel seemed like they got around.

You should also take a look at Flavio Ikoma's "Deadbolt" lock.

It's similar to what you're talking about, and it's in production, so you know it works.

If you know a machinist or a mechanical engineer, I would start by talking to them. There's a heck of a lot that has nothing to do with the lock mechanism, and it all has to work together, or it will sink your idea.

If you don't have connections to a machine shop, I would still suggest trying to make some prototypes on your own. Make it out of wood or plastic, if you have to, the important thing is to make sure it works, outside your head. Then, you can get lost in the weeds about things like parts counts, materials selection, and machining cost.

There would be only one spring ? There was no need for springs on balls if I understood you correctly, English is not my first language ......
That *deadbolt*lock have not single one similarity with this solution ?
I am mechanical engineer , but I choose to work for my self so I run auto service
Look , all parts will be inside the pivot, few parts...... pivot with one nut , three balls , that part inside pivot which will hold balls locked IN blade , simple push button and one small spring .

 

[Shorttime]

There would be only one spring ? There was no need for springs on balls if I understood you correctly, English is not my first language ......
That *deadbolt*lock have not single one similarity with this solution ?
I am mechanical engineer , but I choose to work for my self so I run auto service
Look , all parts will be inside the pivot, few parts...... pivot with one nut , three balls , that part inside pivot which will hold balls locked IN blade , simple push button and one small spring .

No worries! I don't think I'm doing a good job of explaining myself.

This is what you're talking about, right? A "ball detent"?

Building a knife lock means finding a place to get every single part. You're going to have to make or buy every single part, install the balls, and have something inside the pivot pin which holds the balls in place, but lets them move when you want to unlock the blade.

If you're asking if it could be done, the answer is yes.

If you're asking whether or not people would buy it? That's a much more complicated question.

 

[Natlek]

No worries! I don't think I'm doing a good job of explaining myself.

This is what you're talking about, right? A "ball detent"?

Building a knife lock means finding a place to get every single part. You're going to have to make or buy every single part, install the balls, and have something inside the pivot pin which holds the balls in place, but lets them move when you want to unlock the blade.

If you're asking if it could be done, the answer is yes.

If you're asking whether or not people would buy it? That's a much more complicated question.

`Ok , I think this will better explain how this should works ..
I don t ask if it would sell ......... I just share my thoughts

 

[shane45-1911]

Again, the pivot/QR will not be flush with the frame. It will be uncomfortable and un-ergonomic, as well as the chance you will press the button accidently when gripping the knife hard when doing some serious cutting.

Pass.

 

[nhobo]

You are depending on the pivot not turning in the handle to keep the blade from closing when locked open.

The stop pin keeps the blade from opening too far. The locking pivot is the only thing keeping the blade from closing when locked open. What keeps the pivot from turning in the handle? There is a lot of leverage on the pivot from the blade.

With a 3” blade and a 1/4” pivot the mecanical advantage is 12:1. 10 lbs of force at the tip of the blade results in 120 lbs of force at the pivot. This is where you need to start - you need to design a pivot that has the strength to resist spinning in the handle at least 600 lbs of force (50*12).

I can put a liner or frame lock blade (edge down) in a vise and stand on the handle. If the knife fails it won't be the lock, it will be the handle twisting. When you can do that with your pivot you will have solved part of the problem.

 

[Glenn Goodlett]

With some refinement, it seems like a decent idea and would be plenty strong. May be difficult to machine but so are a lot of things. At least you are thinking about something.

 

[Natlek]

You are depending on the pivot not turning in the handle to keep the blade from closing when locked open.

The stop pin keeps the blade from opening too far. The locking pivot is the only thing keeping the blade from closing when locked open. What keeps the pivot from turning in the handle? There is a lot of leverage on the pivot from the blade.

With a 3” blade and a 1/4” pivot the mecanical advantage is 12:1. 10 lbs of force at the tip of the blade results in 120 lbs of force at the pivot. This is where you need to start - you need to design a pivot that has the strength to resist spinning in the handle at least 600 lbs of force (50*12).

I can put a liner or frame lock blade (edge down) in a vise and stand on the handle. If the knife fails it won't be the lock, it will be the handle twisting. When you can do that with your pivot you will have solved part of the problem.

I don t think that would be problem at all .First , you are talking of forces in opposite way of force we apply when we cutting . Anyway it will me much stronger then liner lock . Pivot can be in this shape / as in the drawing / to fit in frame. Of course , there are many other solutions to prevent the pivot from turning into the frame ,i give just example .Look , I don t want to design stronger lock then Cold Steel Tri-Ad ..................
PS. I'm glad you understood how it would all work

 

[Natlek]

With some refinement, it seems like a decent idea and would be plenty strong. May be difficult to machine but so are a lot of things. At least you are thinking about something.

I simple can not draw a complete solution in paint program I already have a good idea on paper and in my head . . . . Maybe I overlooked something, that's why you're here

 

[Natlek]

Again, the pivot/QR will not be flush with the frame. It will be uncomfortable and un-ergonomic, as well as the chance you will press the button accidently when gripping the knife hard when doing some serious cutting.

Pass.

I don t think you understand what I mean .... Let say we use three 3mm balls .They will sit in center of pivot , only small part of sphere will engage in blade ,VERY little movement of that /called piston on the drawing/ will push balls down ....................
Push button CAN be made very easy to be flush with frame

 

[Shorttime]

N Natlek , it sounds like you have a good idea of how this should work, but it's hard to explain without either an animation/short film or a working model.

I think the easiest way to figure out the problems is to build it. Even if it doesn't have quite all the features you want, it would help a whole lot to have something that fits together and moves. Some things just don't make sense in a picture.

 

[Natlek]

N Natlek , it sounds like you have a good idea of how this should work, but it's hard to explain without either an animation/short film or a working model.

I think the easiest way to figure out the problems is to build it. Even if it doesn't have quite all the features you want, it would help a whole lot to have something that fits together and moves. Some things just don't make sense in a picture.

Thanks !
I will draw all on paper and then I will take a photo Working model ...maybe .But I am sure that this would work ......
Maybe this would help to get idea how it would work , details don t matter ....