New member with question..?

R

Robocop

Joined
Jan 9, 2008
Messages
8
I have just joined up after lurking for some time and was sent here by fellow member Owen. I have seen this site linked in threads over at CandlePowerForums and many speak highly of the people here. Thanks for having me and my first post will be a question and I hope it is in the right place....this is a huge forum with so many areas however this seems the best place.

I am a police officer as of ten years now and have carried an old Darrell Ralph design made by the now out of business Outdoor Edge Co. The knife I carried was called the Paragee with plain edge and I believe the blade was AUS-8 with a frame lock design. While I have many other knives this little beauty was my favorite and it was pretty cheap at around 40 dollars.

Years of use have stripped the screw heads and I was searching for something similiar in design and feel. Sadly I checked Mr. Ralphs web site and can not afford to purchase his custom items however I did find where he has another similiar knife design made by Smith & Wesson. Their version claims to be a Darrell Ralph design also with frame lock and AUS-8 blade material. The S&W version even looks a lot like the Paragee. I hope it is ok to post a link and if not I will correct it....the knife in question is this link
http://www.knifeworks.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2831

My question is will this product most likely be as smooth and reliable as the Paragee also designed by Mr. Ralph? I also very much liked the stonewash finish on the original Paragee blade and notice the S&W design claims theirs to have a bead blasted finish. Is this similiar to the stonewash? I beat the crap out of that Paragee and hardly ever noticed any blade scratches and it was that feature that originally caught my attention....I just like the look and feel of it.

I did find two dealers on-line who had the old Paragee for sale however all they had was the half serrated blade design. I have always been partial to the plain edge for some reasons. So again thanks for having me and if anyone can give an input on this design I would appreciate it.....is it even close to the Paragee?
 
I don't know what your Paragee looks like, but if stripped screw heads are your only concern, you might try contacting STR through his subforum here and see if he can recondition your Paragee for you. He does to-notch work and this might be right up his alley.

If you still want to try something new, Kershaw, Spyderco, Benchmade (H&K, red class or blue class), SOG, Buck... all of these are reputable companies with good products that can handle the day-to-day chores you might run into.

The H&K 14210 from Benchmade might be interesting to you. The blade shape is similar to the S&W in your link. The price is going to be close to $100.00 though, instead of $40.00.

Kershaw does a lot of recurve blades and A/Os and their stuff is very good quality and affordable. Spydercos are easier for me to work with than just about any other knife. They look "different" until you get used to them, but you'll find that their looks are a result of their function. They are easy to find and delpoy in stressful situations, and they always work...period!

There's nothing I can say about Buck that hasn't been said a million times. The US made ones are still a good knife for a reasonable price. I've never had one of their offfshore models so I can't say anything about them.

Good luck. Let us know what you get.
 
Bill I like the knife in the link however I believe it may be just a little out of my departments rules and regulations for carry (grin)

Dale the Paragee photo is here http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/outdoor/order1.html

I have other expensive and better quality knives that I also carry on duty (Benchmade Auto is a favorite) . I really like the 942 Benchmade Osborn as well and they also have a really good "feel" to them....however this little Paragee knife always just did it for me. It seems to have a certain "feel" I like and I have not found this in my other carry options. Yes I have many more I trust however after losing several costly knives on duty this was one of the cheaper ones that I also trusted.

I really cant explain as to why this knife grew on me.....it always had that familiar "click" when I opened it and it never developed any play in the blade. I guess I am hoping since the S&W is a Darrell Ralph design also that it would feel the same as his Paragee design.

My old Paragee is still working however I cant find any small metric screws locally. I know it is most likely an easy fix however was still hoping this similiar knife would be another option. I have to say I have never had dealings with Darrell Ralph directly but he seems to be a very nice man. I sent him an e-mail asking if he knew of any who still had the plain edge versions available and he asked me to send him my knife for repairs. I appreciate the gesture however hate to waste his time for a few simple screws. He did send me a link to a knifekit site that had many different screws also.

So can anyone say if a bead blasted finish is the same as a stonewashed finish. I honestly do not worry too much as to a blades finish especially my duty ones however again the Paragee finish was unique to me at least. I am not in the know as to knives really however hope that will change with time here. I was shocked to see that Camillus was also no longer around as I thought they also had a few Darrell Ralph collaborations way back when.

For now I have swapped to my Benchmade and also an old Timberline Discovery Vallotton with assisted opening. These will work for now and I will keep reading and maybe learn a thing or two here.

As far as cost goes I have no problem spending money on something that I depend on for duty as I have also learned you get what you pay for. This search was not really based on cost as much as it was trying to find something as close to my original Paragee as possible....the S&W simply caught my eye as I did a search on Darrell Ralph+collaborations+frame lock....well you get my point and the S&W popped up.

I will also check STR on his sub forum as it really would be nice to maybe get my old Paragee reconditioned with all new screws.....thanks for the time.
 
Our pleasure guy. Good luck with the repairs. Who knows why something becomes a "favorite" to someone... it just does.

I don't know the answer to your query about bead blasting and stonewashing, but I have a feeling they are different techniques. STR would know that one also.
 
Hey Robocop, nice to see you over here. If you're really stuck on that knife STR is the man to go to. Assuming it's only stripped screws it should cost very little. I'll recommend you check out a few other knives first, however, in case you decide it's not worth the extra expense. Based on the pictures of your current knife I'd say the Boker M-Type or Hyper could be a good fit.

To answer your question re: bead blast vs. stonewash you should examine the finish carefully. If it looks like lots of tiny scratches we call that stonewash. A lot of people like it because it shows less wear than a regular polished or bead blast finish. Bead blast finish has a kind of matte look and is literally made by bombarding a surface with beads. It is liked because it shows less wear than a regular polished surface and is non reflective.
 
I'd probably stay away from the Smith & Wesson's, unless it's not made in China (If it's not, then I might try it). I'd more likely use a S&W FB then a folder. You don't want or need your knife to break while you need it. That happened to me ONCE while on Patrol, & fortunately, I carried a boot knife too (Double edge so I don't have to fiddle with orienting the blade, since it was on my boot).

Personally, I'd contact STR & see what it'd cost & just get it done. You have other knives to use while you're waiting. I think the "familiar click" you hear when you open your Paragee, is the frame lock. I believe Kershaws new Shallot is a frame lock & also there are some discontinued Kershaw S2's floating around that are titanium frame locks.

Either way, good luck & stay stafe.
 
Welcome Robo. To recondition your Paragee look at www.knifekits.com and then go to the speciatity screws and you will find the metrics you will need for the reconditioning at hand. I had to order these to recondition a Camillus EDC which is also a Ralph design.
 
Some of the Kershaw/Onion knives have somewhat similarly curvy handles that should be similar in feeling to your Paragee.

You could also put up a post in the Wanted to Buy forum here, and someone might have the knife you're looking for.
 
Mate, If you really like your old knife, and the blade is still useful, then get it repaired. Good knives (and $40 was OK money 10 years ago) are repairable.
And please, if you respect Darrell Ralph's design, and him, let him decide whether you are wasting his time!
Greg
 
Robo~

I would agree that if the knife is a favorite you should get it repaired even if you end up carrying something else. If Mr. Ralph is volunteering to do the work I would think your knife would appreciate a trip back there and would return with even better vibrations. Offer to pay for parts and labor and shipping both ways if that's not already part of the deal and would make you feel better.

As to the S&W, why not get one anyway since money does not seem to be that much of an issue. It might make you appreciate the one you have even more and you can always keep it in a tool box or trunk for emergencies.

Nice to know there is a cop who prefers the plain blade.
 
Regarding your "finish" question, a bead blasted finish is a very low-luster (think flat and non-reflective) finish often used today to reduce finishing costs on knives. While I doubt it will scratch easily, you may find softer metals leave marks on the blade that look like scratches but are actually deposits on the blade instead.

Unless you are concerned with reflections in low-light conditions (think ninjas) I find the blasted finish less attractive.

The only "stone washed" finish available today (to my very limited knowledge) is on the standard Chris Reeve folder, the Sebenza (you can probably find larger pictures on this website, just search for Sebenza.
 
I was going to suggest the Kershaw Storm, as well, but if Darrell Ralph, the man himself, offered to fix up your knife, I'd take him up on it!

Daniel
 
Robocop, welcome to Bladeforums!

Everyone here has favorites, favorite knives, favorite companies. The Paragee was a great design. Darrel Ralph did a similar knife for Camillus, also, I think, and for his own custom Apogee.

I agree with the guys who say you should take Darrel up on his offer. Get that Paragee working right again. It's too good to let it degrade.

Smith & Wesson has a terrible rep around here, because the knives are of inconsistent quality. One model may be well built and another -- total trash, cheap steel, weak lockup, poor ergonomics.

Now for the good news: the FL2 you were looking at is one of the good S&W knives. I had gotten one, was impressed with it, and offered it to my brother-in-law, who is a police officer. He carried it on duty and found it completely dependable. I was surprised to see how low the price has gone.

You also might like to look at the Kershaw Storm or larger Storm II, but I'm afraid the design is a bit exotic, and you don't need a knife attracting attention. I would also suggest another knife with similar technology to the Paragee and FL2 -- the Kershaw Shallot.
 
Esav thanks for the welcome and I also really do like the Kershaw you linked to. I received another message from Darrell who again offered to replace any screws. I plan to pay for shipping both ways and any cost he may require however I believe I will send it to him.

I have to say for me to not have purchased this from Mr. Ralph originally he sure is a classy man to offer to help. I hated to bother him with such a trivial need as I am sure he stays plenty busy however needless to say I was very impressed with his character....just a great man to deal with.

I really do not have the cash to play with the more serious makers however after looking around this forum I see there is a place for every type of collector....even under paid cops like me (grin) I must say that the members here are very serious as to their collections and I am amazed at the quality of some of the higher end knives .

I know flashlights very well and have been a member at Candle Power Forums for many years. I am afraid if I let my facination with knives continue at the rate my flashlight facination grew I will be a very poor man before long. Thanks again for the help and I will keep you posted as to my results.

I almost forgot to ask however I know very little about steel. One of the reasons I so enjoyed my old Paragee was it seemed to be very easy for me to keep it sharp. I know it was AUS-8 but again that was all latin to me so for me it just worked very well. I like the Shallot look very well but notice it is Sandvik 13C26. I searched this forum and found a few older threads but learned many makers were still experimenting with this steel. Is this Sandvik going to have similiar blade qualities as the AUS-8? Not really an issue however I enjoy learning all this new stuff anyway.

Second question is that my old Paragee had white plastic type washers inside however it was always smooth no matter how many times I opened it. For the cost it was smoother than many of my more costly models. I noticed on knifekits forum there is a section for bronze washers and they are pretty reasonable in cost just to replace a few. If it is worth it I may ask Mr. Ralph to add a few of these if possible when I send my Paragee to him. Will I notice a difference and will these make an already smooth knife better?
 
There are many knives available now for extremely reasonable prices that will perform well under hard use. Stick around and you'll end up with a shopping list of good inexpensive knives.

The first lesson is to learn which companies provide consistent value. Benchmade, Boker, Buck, Kershaw, and Spyderco are a few of the most reliable, with a wide range of folders and even some fixed blades, that you'll be able to afford. Just not all of them at once. :p

Don't worry too much about steels. We can give you links to all kinds of information about steel but it's a complex subject because the blade geometry and the heat treat of the steel have more to do with how well the knife cuts than the steel itself -- within some limits, of course. AUS8 and the Sandvik steels (12C27, 13C26) are all good.

The Sandvik steels are not new. Kershaw has been upgrading to them and others, as it is going through a tremendous period of creativity right now. They are trying to match the steel to the kind of use the knife will get.

The white washers are probably nylatron and work fine. Under some circumstances they may degrade, but they do provide a smooth action. Phosphor bronze washers are fine, also, but I don't know if the difference means much. Also, a knife designed for a certain thicknes of nylatron washers will show blade wobble if thinner bronze washers are put in.

my old Paragee had white plastic type washers inside however it was always smooth no matter how many times I opened it.
Click to expand...

Don't mess with success. :)
 
You make a great point and I believe I will leave well enough alone....the knife is smooth as silk with the factory washers so why take a chance. On a side note I am taking a small vacation to the Smoky Mountains in Tennessee this weekend. I have not been for some time however there is a huge knife shop there called Smoky Mtn. Knife Works. Maybe I can handle a few knives in person and return with a few new toys.

Thanks again for the help and I will keep you posted as to the results.
 
I just saw your reply Carrot and hello to you as well....I like this forum and over time may be just as active here as our other place we hang out.
 
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