New NYC Data On Weapons

T

tom19176

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The following came off 1010wins ( local news) web site :

"NEW YORK (AP/1010 WINS) -- The New York Police Department stopped and frisked 575,304 people last year, an eight percent increase from 2008. The figure is a new record high.

The numbers were sent to the City Council Tuesday. The policy is contentious. Only six percent of the stops in 2009 resulted in arrests, about the same as last year. And the majority of those stopped were black and Hispanic men. Civil rights groups say the numbers are disproportionate and discriminatory.

Officers recovered over 7,600 weapons last year from the stops, up nearly 10 percent from the year before. Police Commissioner Ray Kelly says the policy is an integral part of police strategy.

There are 8.3 million people in the city of New York. In 2008, 531,159 people were stopped"

So much for the Second and Fourth Amendment under Mayor Mike :thumbdn:
 
Officers recovered over 7,600 weapons last year from the stops, ...
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Not only do I disagree with the policy, I bet I wouldn't agree that all of those 7,600 were really "weapons".

I'm going to the knife show in NYC Friday, and I'm not bringing a knife. :(
 
:thumbdn:
I'll miss you, big apple.

My family are all based out of Brooklyn, and now I don't feel so bad that everyone has left over the past century.
 
Having spent my life enforcing the law in one way or another, I have always been mindful of the rules you need to follow in doing so. This is totally wrong. I have about 30 off duty officers working for me now in the shopping malls I manage in NYC, and they clearly told me they have to produce between 15 to 25 250 forms a month if they are in a special enforcement unit. A 250 is the form and officer fills out when he( or she) stops someone for questioning and most likely searching them. Most officers are in some sort of unit in NYC and general patrol officer have number to meet also.....I wish some one would go to court and put "little mayor mike" in his place! This is still the USA or is it?
 
tom19176 said:
The following came off 1010wins ( local news) web site :

"NEW YORK (AP/1010 WINS) -- The New York Police Department stopped and frisked 575,304 people last year, an eight percent increase from 2008. The figure is a new record high.

The numbers were sent to the City Council Tuesday. The policy is contentious. Only six percent of the stops in 2009 resulted in arrests, about the same as last year. And the majority of those stopped were black and Hispanic men. Civil rights groups say the numbers are disproportionate and discriminatory.

Officers recovered over 7,600 weapons last year from the stops, up nearly 10 percent from the year before. Police Commissioner Ray Kelly says the policy is an integral part of police strategy.

There are 8.3 million people in the city of New York. In 2008, 531,159 people were stopped"

So much for the Second and Fourth Amendment under Mayor Mike :thumbdn:
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The low number of arrests doesn't surprise me. The real troublemakers know better than to keep their knives, guns, etc. on their person or in their homes or to carry them into public buildings, schools or any other place where they may be subject to search. Same thing is happening over here in Boston. Weapons are being stashed in empty lots, abandoned buildings, parks and other public areas. When needed, they are used and then re-stashed. The Boston Police call them "community weapons".
 
Do we know it was in fact 575,304 distinct individuals who were searched, or is it possible that figure includes some people who were frisked on multiple separate occasions? If it's the former, and we use the 8.3M population number, that'd mean about 1 in every 14 NYC residents was frisked. Kinda scary.
 
The 250 forms are put into a data bank for use in tracking people and who they are with when they are stopped. I am sure there are some of the same people are stopped more than once but that is not a recorded number that I am aware of.


Today in Brooklyn's Criminal court the judge upheld that a Gerber Gator folding lock back was indeed a gravity knife since the officer was able to flick it open. The defendant stated he bought it at KMART in the city of NY ( Staten Island) where it was openly sold, but that did not matter. He was offered a six month jail sentence for a guilty plea. He was reviewing his chances with his lawyer when I left the court room.....
 
I wonder if the NY state legislature could be convinced to change the law and pass a preemption law. If would be an expensive lobbying effort but it might be worth it.
 
Does anyone know what the prior criminal record,if any,the gerber gator defendant had? And what were the circumstances surrounding his arrest? I'm wondering why he was offered "only six months jail".
 
The defendant with the Gerber had two prior arrest that were dealt with by conditional discharge. He was stopped with three other teens to young men in their 20s. They were not doing anything criminal at the time. The NYPD team that stopped them were part of a city wide gang unit. The officer who arrested him actually dates an officer that works for me in a mall I run, and I spoke to him after the court hearing. He had said they were stopping to talk to the group and discovered the knife when they did a pat down. It was not exposed and has under a 4" blade so it did not violate the NYC Admin Code for balde lentgh or method of carry. The hearing was solely to determine wheter or not the knife was a gravity and the judge agreed it was.
I know it always makes the members here feel warm and cozy to know the weapons charge for a knife was somehow an add on charge to another crime, but in NYC that is no longer the case. It is often the sole charge....
 
That's just so wrong on so many levels. I used to get harassed by New York's Finest all the time when I lived in NY. I once got stopped on 145th and Broadway in Harlem and I had a Jaguar balisong on me--the cop was pretty cool about it. He patted me down and felt it and asked me if it was a gravity knife, and I said no. He let me go home with it.
 
So essentially this guy had a minor offense record,I'd guess due to cond discharge sentences. Six months incarceration seems kind of stiff considering the circumstances. Next we'll see swiss army knives,leatherman micras and sharpened pencils considered as weapons. I wonder if and when possession of items like flashlights,multitools,those thick,sturdy carpenters pencils,heavy-duty pens/sharpie markers,etc will be legislated into criminality. A tightly rolled magazine or newspaper can be used like a club. A lock in a sock/bandana is an eye-opener. A large water bottle can be used like a club. Hot tea or coffee can be thrown in someone's face. A loaf of very stale italian bread can pack a whallop. Kmart,walmart,target,sports authority and many others have been selling gravity knives and other deadly instruments for years now. Why aren't crowds of law-abiding citizens protesting these places? NYC allows these purveyors of deadly devices to continue in business? I'm appalled! Swat teams must be deployed to these locations in order to ensure they no longer endanger our lives. Thanks dictator,um Mayor Mike.
 
tom19176 said:
The following came off 1010wins ( local news) web site :

"NEW YORK (AP/1010 WINS) -- The New York Police Department stopped and frisked 575,304 people last year, an eight percent increase from 2008. The figure is a new record high.

The numbers were sent to the City Council Tuesday. The policy is contentious. Only six percent of the stops in 2009 resulted in arrests, about the same as last year. And the majority of those stopped were black and Hispanic men. Civil rights groups say the numbers are disproportionate and discriminatory.

Officers recovered over 7,600 weapons last year from the stops, up nearly 10 percent from the year before. Police Commissioner Ray Kelly says the policy is an integral part of police strategy.

There are 8.3 million people in the city of New York. In 2008, 531,159 people were stopped"

So much for the Second and Fourth Amendment under Mayor Mike :thumbdn:
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in Manhattan there is a traffic of 20 million people on a regular working day, so those numbers are for the regular population.
 
rio where do you get your facts? First most of the stops were in Brooklyn, Bronx and Queens, second your 20 million is way off.
 
tom19176 said:
The defendant with the Gerber had two prior arrest that were dealt with by conditional discharge. He was stopped with three other teens to young men in their 20s. They were not doing anything criminal at the time. The NYPD team that stopped them were part of a city wide gang unit. The officer who arrested him actually dates an officer that works for me in a mall I run, and I spoke to him after the court hearing. He had said they were stopping to talk to the group and discovered the knife when they did a pat down. It was not exposed and has under a 4" blade so it did not violate the NYC Admin Code for balde lentgh or method of carry. The hearing was solely to determine wheter or not the knife was a gravity and the judge agreed it was.
I know it always makes the members here feel warm and cozy to know the weapons charge for a knife was somehow an add on charge to another crime, but in NYC that is no longer the case. It is often the sole charge....
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OK, so let's review the essential elements of this. First of all, if the kid had two priors, he was known to the police as a troublemaker. He was stopped by a gang unit, so he either was dressed like a gangster (sagging pants, do-rag, wearing colors associated with gang members, etc.) or in the company of known gang members. Tom, check me if I am wrong, but my bet is that he was either black or Hispanic as well. Sure, with two priors, the gang unit figured that they could put this troublemaker away for a long time (not sure if NY has the "three strikes" law that California and some other states do). Even if the knife was a Boy Scout type pocketknife, the arresting officer would make every attempt to flip out the blade with a wrist-flick so he could nail the punk on a gravity-knife charge. Looks like they were really out to get this guy and they managed to do so. Do you know the final disposition of the case? Lessons learned here: when in NYC (or Boston for that matter; strict knife laws there, too) dress well, keep a low profile and keep your EDC knife well-concealed.
 
I have little doubt the kid was stopped due to his attire. My concern is that the law once allowed to include common knives as weapons can be enforced that way against anyone. I have a 17 year old son who is going to college next year as a criminal justice major, but if you saw him walking down the street dressed in his "skate board kid" type cloths, I could see him stopped, and if he had a normal small lock back on him, he could end up like this kid .......Did you watch the officer tell how they have to stop kids on the stoop of their house? Is that good policing? It was not in my day!
 
tom19176 said:
I have little doubt the kid was stopped due to his attire. My concern is that the law once allowed to include common knives as weapons can be enforced that way against anyone. I have a 17 year old son who is going to college next year as a criminal justice major, but if you saw him walking down the street dressed in his "skate board kid" type cloths, I could see him stopped, and if he had a normal small lock back on him, he could end up like this kid .......Did you watch the officer tell how they have to stop kids on the stoop of their house? Is that good policing? It was not in my day!
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You are correct. It has all of the features of nanny-state policing and it seems to have tacit approval of our nation's highest court. Everyone right now is watching the SCOTUS case concerning the Chicago gun ban and cheering the SCOTUS decision on the Heller DC gun-ban case, but SCOTUS did not do anything more than affirm the right of law-abiding citizens to possess firearms in their home. Well, what else is new? Over 300 years ago, before the U.S. was even a sovereign nation, colonists kept firearms in their homes, quite legally in fact. This is the amount of progress that we made in three centuries? SCOTUS did not address the carrying of arms outside of the home, be they firearms, edged weapons or impact weapons such as blackjacks, saps, batons, etc. Furthermore, the SCOTUS decision in DC still allows "reasonable" restrictions to be imposed on arms possession by state and local governments. So, looks like NYC, Boston and other jurisdictions can continue to place limits on blade lengths and types of knives that are carried in public. The best that one can do right now is dress well, keep a low profile and practice good concealment of EDC knives while in NYC or any other anti-weapon, anti-self-defense jurisdiction. Tom, if your 17 year old son EDC's, explain to him that he should change his appearance. One "Terry frisk" could destroy his criminal justice career before it even begins. Even colleges are doing thorough background checks on applicants now.
 
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