New old stuff on the Home made Stabilizers thread

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Well this is old news but the Wood hardener from Minwax works pretty darn good.
Without pulling a vacuum I am getting good results. This has been said before but is worth repeating.
Stick your wood in a microwave for 30-45 secs. (Not longer, Ask me how I know this
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Momma's hair dryer would probably work also.
Throw it directley into the wood hardener.
Throw an unheated piece in there too.
What I found is the heated piece will sink to the bottom within a hour or so. The unheated will float for a day or more. Reason.
The heated woods pours are opened up
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Let it soak another day, after they have sunk.
Pull out and air dry at normal room temp for a few days.
Also you can use Fieblings leather dye to dye the wood at the same time. Be SURE it's not the oil based stuff. The label should say.
Anyway after sawing all of the stuff I've tried, in half. All had complete penetration. They also sanded and buffed out with no problems at all.
Qualifer: I have tried Maple, Bloodwood, Cocobolo and some other soft woods.
Next is Mammoth Ivory, Lacewood and Red Oak.
I will post the results on those.

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RHankins Available knives
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=205453
 
Bob
I've been using the wood hardener on everything.The solution seems to take on a dark color as soon as I put some wood in. Thats ok as most of it needs to be a little darker.I found a real thin epoxy mix called rot fix that I mix with the wood hardener to gain a little strength. I mix 1\3 cup with 3 pints wood hardener. I was worried about the epoxy setting up after taking it out but it works fine. If it's still tacky after a few days throw it into the microwave for 1 min.
Wait till the Wife isn't home for this step.
I've done Elk Horn, mesquite,cocobolo,mapleburl,walnut,koa,aus. beef wood, aus. myall,myrtle, and some others. If I could just make a knife for every handle.
Take Care
TJ
 
That makes sense because of something I found on the net last night at a site that deals with archeological conservation. They recommend soaking wood under a light vacuum in a 5% solution of something called Acryloid B-72 disolved in half acetone and half alcohol. This Acryloid B-72 is the main ingredient in Krylon Crystal Clear spray finish. Since the Minwax hardener contains acetone and alcohol I had wondered if the main ingredient was cyanocrylate – super glue. But I bet it is the acrylic compound. Did I mention that Krylon and Minwax are owned by the same corporation? Good work! How did the soft woods turn out? I found a place to buy the acrylic compound here: http://www.consemp.com/catalog/f.html A quart of 50% solution costs $19.10. If it is the same stuff, diluting it with alocohol and acetone 1:10 to get a 5% solution would sure be cheaper than the Minwax. I think I'll order some and make some home brew to see if it works.
 
BTW. I also just bought a new "Heat Irradiation Chamber" to "polymerize the acrylic compound" in my handle material when I remove it from the solution. The local Harbor Freight store had food dehydrators on sale cheap. I'll let you know how it works.
Terry
 
That sounds great!!! Just got an old pressure cooker to try vacuum and then pressure but sounds like maybe the microwave bit might be simpler!! Having a hard time finding a seal for my cooker. Maybe just use it as a soaking chamber instead of vacuum. You are saying that the heating up does the same thing as a vacuum in opening the pores and removing moisture? How big a piece did you put in the microwave?
 
Terry,
PLEASE keep us posted on the Acrylic stuff
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Vaceuro,
I used some small test pieces. I would start at 20 secs and work up from there. Heat it in the micrwave just long enough to get the wood above warm to the touch. If you get it too hot it will start to smell like its burning. Not a good thing and the wood will start to discolor turning black.
Lets keep in touch with this one, I think we could all benefit.
Where did you get the Wood Rot stuff?

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RHankins Available knives
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=205453
 
Yeah, they have some interesting things at that site. Gotta wait until payday to order the acrylic compound from them. Found some of the Krylon this morning, but it just comes in a spray can. I put on some gloves and a mask and sprayed a full can into a jar - came away with about a cup. This is supposed to be about a 20% solution of the acrylic compound, so I diluted it with two parts acetone and two parts denatured alcohol. Total cost for 5 cups of solution - about $7. Thats about the same price for one pint (2 cups) of the Minwax. Rats! Have to go to work. Will heat some wood tonight and see what happens. May be easier to not burn the wood if you heat it longer on one third to one half power or on defrost cycle. That's what I used to do with turnings from green wood.

Bob, I'm especially curious about using this stuff for soft woods. Several years ago I bought some huge pieces of unusually figured redwood to use for wood carving projects. I just re-discovered it in storage over the holiday weekend. Would make some incredible handle material if I can make it tough enough.

I agree I would like to stay on top of this. I think the commercially stabilized wood is great for those that can afford it or who would rather not mess with stabilizing their own material. But if you do the math, much of the commercial stuff that is stabilized and cut into slabs costs over $200 per board foot. That's a pretty hefty premium for wood, even exotics, that you can buy kiln dried for $10 per board foot. The folks on all the knife forums have given me a ton of free help. Would like to be able to repay that.

BTW, if anyone wants to try this with the Krylon, it's the gloss Crystal Clear #1301. Cost me about $3 at my local hardware store. Spray it into a jar outside and please don't try it without a mask.
Terry
 
So I am confused. What is the working formula guys? Hardener or the mixture of krylon and acetone? My test sample was 1/2 polyurethane, 1/2 thinner, pinch of oil based wood stain. Help vacuum for 4 days. Seemed to penetrate ok. Just curious why I have heard alot about poly, and hardener and all of a sudden the rage is Krylon, acetone, and alcohol. What do these 3 items have that polys and hardeners don't?

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" I am a shootist."
Clay Allison
" Does this mean we are bladists?"
Vaquero57
McAlpin Bladesmithing
 
Vaquero,
Good questions! You're right. This is confusing. But I wouldn't call acrylic the rage just yet. One of the reasons I like threads like this one is that I can post info and it's kind of like thinking out loud when I'm around my friends. One idea builds on another which builds on another . . . What we're dealing with here is something that probably has several "right" answers. You can use oil finishes, diluted laquer, even diluted PVA. The right method and formula for you is the one that will give you the kind of handle material you want that looks and machines the way you want it to and gives your customers a tough, durable knife handle. I'm interested in the acrylic formulas because that is what the commercial stabilization services say they use. And when the moon is full, it pisses me off that the stabized products cost so much. It may not be the right formula or even the best. But from what Bob says, the wood hardener is one formula that does work and I think it probably contains that acrylic resin and uses the alcohol and acetone to remove the air and moisture from the wood and leave the acrylic in it's place. If I'm right, it means being able to produce a stabilized product that rivals that of the commercial people at a fraction of the cost. And this formula, if it works like the Minwax, costs about a third of what the Minwax costs.
Terry
 
Terry

Just so you know, these acrylics are not the same stuff used by the pros. The pros are using acrylic monomers with a chemical polymerization catalyst that accelerates with heat added. The stuff being suggested here just dries. Big difference. Long chain polymers are, by nature, VERY stable.

Rob!



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Rob Ridley
Ranger Original Handcrafted Knives
 
Yeah, Rob, but can you say it three times fast? Ha! Thanks for the info. I am almost a fanatic about knowing my materials, so feedback like that is very helpful. I knew the commercial process involved a two part formula but I haven't been able to find a place to purchase an acrylic resin with a catalyst. Two questions. First, do you know if something like that is available for the home craftsman. And second, how stable does it need to be? In other words, are the home brew methods good enough to make natural materials stable in changing humidity and use conditions? Or are we just wasting our time in the whole process? I had assumed that something used in archeological conservation would be good enough, even if it is not as tough as that material used by commercial stabilization people. But I hate to rely on assumptions and I am not even close to being a rocket scientist concerning this stuff. What I am wondering is that even though the long chain polymers you mentioned are more "chemically" stable, does that matter in making wood or other natural materials more "dimensionally" stable for normal use? Any opionions?
Terry
 
Ok lets keep it going. Terry you said that tyhe hardener had this and that yadayadayada and then you said that if you were right then it would beat the price of Minwax. Okay confused. I thought the minwax was the wood hardener? And I agree with terrys question. So we are using different stuff than the pros. If our stuff gives us good results who cares? I am not dumb but at the same time without an instructor and a classroom for live instruction I get ver lost with all the scientific talk. Somebody please use lamens terms!! How will the hardener or whatever compare witrhy the pros. I am talking the REAL WORLD not pencil and paper as we should all know BIG DIFFERENCE.

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" I am a shootist."
Clay Allison
" Does this mean we are bladists?"
Vaquero57
McAlpin Bladesmithing
 
P.S. I live in rural America. I am looking for items that can be purchased at my local true value store or wal mart. Mail order I do alot of but if I can pick it up on my lunch break cheap then that is prefered.

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" I am a shootist."
Clay Allison
" Does this mean we are bladists?"
Vaquero57
McAlpin Bladesmithing
 
Very interesting discussion.

Terry was asking about acrylic resins with catalyst. Not sure if this is what he is looking for, but in my local hardware store, they sell fibreglass. And the resin they sell to go with that is styrene. They also have a small container of something that they labled as catalyst. Is this stuff acrylic resin? I've never tried it before, though I am on the verge. Just trying to collect more data before I plunge in.
 
Update on my results using Minwax Wood hardener.
So far I have done handles in Bubinka, Bocote and Bloodwood.
The Bloodwood turned out the best giving some really nice depth and a beautiful polish.
The Bubinka is a softer wood and it took a good polish but lacks as much depth as the Bloodwood. Softer woods will probably need a surface sealer after final sanding then buff.
Word to the wise: When buffing Minwax stabilized softer woods, Don't use Green chrome only Scratchless Pink. It gets into the pours and doesn't come out.
The Bocote came out fine, I was able to buff with Green chrome followed by Scratchless pink.
Pics of these handles are on the signature link.
Any update on the Acrylic stuff?

------------------
RHankins Available knives
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=205453
 
The rot fix comes from woodcraft and is on page 109 of the Nov. catalog. I use it because I am trying to add some strength to the min wax woodhardener for softer woods.I have tried diluting epoxy with acetone but the mix usually doesn't dry. This combo does set up and isn't tacky. To finish i sand to 600 wet or dry then go to synthetic steel wool 0000 and polish with min wax wax finish.
Lets keep this thing going. I have some Redwood burl I am going to try if it ever warms up around here.
Take Care
TJ Smith
 
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