New shop knife and a couple of questions

Joined
Dec 17, 2003
Messages
597
Haven't been able to work in the shop the last couple of months, it's amazing how rusty I got and how much I forgot in that short amount of time. I made this one to try to get back in the knife making mode before working on an extremely patient persons knife.

I've only made a couple of fixed blades and not sure of some dimensions and balance point for this type of knife, a general purpose utility.

Here are the dimensions of this knife:
4" blade
8 3/4" o.a.l.
7/8" thick at the slight palm swell
balances at the last copper spacer

It's probably personal preference but:

* Is there a preferred average thickness of the handle, say at the palm swell?

* Is there a preferred balance point? handle heavy, blade heavy or centered

Comments and opinions appreciated
Thanks,
Dave

Sorry about all the images, I was trying to show the great figure in the handle

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Dave, that's a great knife, all the way around. Wouldn't mind having that one myself.
 
Wow that is a gorgeous knife! You are definitely a perfectionist I think.

My personal preference is for a slightly back weighted knife, that in my opinion is what gives a knife that "an extension of your hand" feel.

Amayzing work. What is the wood?

Sean
 
Who! That looks great, and a great picture. I like the knife to ballance just behind or in front of the gaurd, depending on blade length. Longer blade like a bowie I try to get the ballance just in front of the gaurd, shorter hunter rite at or just behind the gaurd.
 
Thanks you guys!!

It's not that I worry too much, I completely enjoy every knife that I make and cherish the time I'm able to be in the shop. It's just frustrating sometimes when my mind knows how I want a knife to turn out but my hands don't always cooperate. My wife loves it when I make a knife but hates it when I finish because she has to listen to me complain about all the flaws I see. :D

Thanks for the info. on the balance.

The beautiful wood is Afzelia Lay

Dave
 
Ooommffff....... I think I just swallowed my tongue......

That is a mighty fine piece of work.

Did you say what the steel is ???

Beautiful

Robert
 
Very nice knife.Love everything about it,especially that rockin' hamon!:cool:
What are you using between the copper spacers?
 
Robert, the steel is 1084 (clay treated)

leatherbird, the spacer is black desert ironwood burl

The guard is textured and etched wrought iron

Thanks,
Dave
 
Great knife Dave but I wouldn't put it in the shop knife category :D.

The wood shows great depth and the hamon really jumps out. Would you mind describing the finishing techniques that you used on the handle and the blade?

Regards Marcus
 
I think my definition of a shop knife must be different, a knife not quite good enough to sell but absolutely good enough to use.


Thanks Marcus, there are many different methods but this is what I did on this knife.

The handle has a tung oil finish,
After shaping I hand sand to about 400 grit paper then hit it with 600 grit polishing cloth to make sure I don't have any deep scratches anywhere. I don't like to fine sand too much at this point until after I apply the sanding sealer, tack the wood before applying sealer. The sanding sealer depends on the finish I'm using, in this case tung oil so I dilute that with petroleum distillate. When the sealer is dry I'll use 600 grit cloth and keep doing this procedure until the surface of the wood is smooth, no open pores anywhere.

When I'm sure it's sealed I sand with 1200 then 4000 grit polishing cloth, tack and rub on the first coat of tung oil. I found it's important to make sure the wood and oil is at least 70 degrees before applying and while drying, I'll put the knife in a light box to dry if it's too cold. When dry I rub with fine fibral wool (a non metallic steel wool), tack and rub on another coat of tung oil. I think this one has 2 maybe 3 coats but you'll know when you don't need any more. When thoroughly dry I buffed the final coat with worn fine fibral wool and applied a couple coats of carnauba wax.

Blade polishing,
The blade polishing depends on what look I want for each knife, I have yet to do a full traditional polishing. On this blade I focused my polishing more on the hardened area and left the softer spine a little dirty for a 2 toned effect. Whatever look I'm after I bring each blade to a near mirror finish first, making sure of no deep scratches anywhere. I have containers with different etching solutions, this one I used 1 part ferric chloride, 1 part vinegar and 3 parts distilled water.

Before etching I thoroughly wash the blade with dish washing detergent and hot water, dry with a paper towel and make sure I don't touch the blade and immediately dip in the etch for 20 - 30 seconds each. I dipped 3 maybe 4 times on this one lightly rubbing with fine fibral wool in between dips. Immediately after the final dip I neutralized the etch with ammonia enhanced windex, doesn't smell as bad as straight ammonia and it's convenient in the shop with the spray bottle. I then wash the blade with fine fibral wool and dish washing detergent. If I'm going to polish the blade right away I won't oil it but will if it's going to sit for a while. At this point you will clearly see the transition line allowing you to select the area to polish. I have a few different sanding backers that I use but mainly use a 1/4" thick hard rubber for polishing, cut to a little over the width of the blade 1 1/2" in this case by roughly 1/2" that I wrap polishing cloth around. The flexible cloth and square shoulders of the rubber allow me to polish the plunge cleanly.

This blade has a full taper so I supported the length on my adjustable support block and held it in a vise, same as a support for distal taper blade hand sanding. At this point the blade looks pretty dirty and I want to lightly remove the oxide layer to expose the grain of the steel (using the word grain for lack of technical term). I use Flitz and a paper towel until very little black comes off on the towel. On this knife I started with 1200 grit polishing cloth wrapped around the rubber backer and worked sections of the blade down the length starting with the ricasso down in the plunge ending at the tip. The beauty of this backer is it's hard but flexible and allows me to apply more pressure on the hardened side while still lightly and equally working the soft steel side.

When you finish this step you should start seeing the activity in the transition line, next I use 4000 grit and do the same procedure then 6000 grit. If I'm happy with how it looks at this point I'll start focusing more on the line itself with 8000 grit and my finger as a backer. Here's where you can start doing different things to bring out more activity but on this one I blended everything with paper. I've used paper towels, meat wrapping paper, brown paper bags but on this one I used biodegradable rv/marine toilet paper. I always kind of hated that stuff when camping but it works well for polishing, sit down watch tv and rub it out. The more you rub with the paper the more it defines the lines and it's not bad cardiovascular exercise. Finish with wax or oil, I used Eesox for this blade.

Sorry to be so long winded, I tried to condense as much as possible.

Dave

Here's another reject blade that I practiced polishing on, it may end up as a new shop knife.

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brash, I'll give you the long version why I feel this knife isn't good enough for me to sell, if you want the short version I'll sum it up at the end.


I usually make folders, this is my third hidden tang fixed blade, third flat ground knife and first full tapered blade. A year ago I had to take a forced early retirement because of health reasons and during this last year my shop time has greatly diminished, especially the last few months. I start doing something like grinding a blade and have to stop sometimes for days before I can pick up where I left off. I started a very important knife for a special person back in December and planned to use my first flat ground full tapered blade. I was teaching myself how to do this when I had to keep stopping in the middle of it, it was very frustrating. After 4 failed attempts I finally finished a blade that I was happy with but health issues once again got in the way and almost 2 months went by without much being done on the knife.

About a week ago I started to feel well enough to work in the shop and was anxious to get back to the knife but started making stupid mistakes. I didn't want to ruin this special knife so I decided that I needed some practice to get back in the making mode. The blade on this thread knife is one of the 4 failed learning blades. There's no serious functional problem that I'm aware of with any of them but each has it's own aesthetic issues, the grind doesn't match, ground too thin for this type of knife, botched clay treatment, this one had the least problem. It was one that I had to stop a few times during the tapering and somehow didn't notice I lost my center line and it's off, you really have to look hard to see it but I know it's there and don't want that type of flaw on a for sale knife.

I got in a rhythm after making so many folders but after making only two knives of this type I forgot quite a bit of what I learned with all this down time. I'm glad I retrained on this knife instead of potentially messing up the good one, now I can start back with a lot more confidence. My health and this added confidence will hopefully continue to allow me to finish another special knife that is long overdue.

Short version,
A rejected, off line tapered blade on a fixed blade retraining knife

Dave
 
Thanks a lot for your extensive answer Dave.

You really seem to put an enormous deal of effort in each of your knives, thats admirable.

What kind of sanding cloth do you use? The only cloth that goes up to 12000 grit is named Micro-Mesh but it costs a smal fortune. Is it the same that you use ?

I have a chronical illness that prevents me very often from making knives (not to even mention forging or doing sports :( ), so I can feel with you on the health issues. I hope you recover soon and completly.

Regards Marcus
 
Dave,

Good to see you and your shop knives back again. Like your previous ones, your latest shop knife looks great.

Hope that you are able to overcome your health problems and hope to see you put up some of your work for sale here.

Best wishes
 
Marcus, I use the MX even their 2 x 72 belts and I love 'em but I was referring to 3M Polishing sheets. I don't remember where I bought them but they last quite a while, I seem to use more of the 400 and 600 grit. This place has them but you may be able to find them cheaper http://www.knifeandgun.com/catalog/abrasives_186628_products.htm
I'm sorry to hear of your health problems!!


airyq, so you had to remind me of all my shop knives :mad: :D

Thanks,
Dave
 
Hey, thanks for the description of the problem! I just ask because it always helps me, as someone really just starting to make knives, to find out what makers consider a fault in a knife (especially when I don't see it ;)).
 
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