New Steels vs San Mai

Drdan

Drdan

Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
1,390
I've noticed that Cold Steel has incorporated some "supersteels" into some of their fixed blade lineup . How do they compare with San Mai III, and why does San Mai command such a premium? Is San Mai truly a superior blade?

Thanks! :)
 
The only new steel I see on the fixed blades is 3V and they haven't hit the stores yet. The large Sanmai models are effectively discontinued
and the new 3V replacements have been delayed.
 
3V is said to be super tough and especially good for large chopping blades. It's also prone to corrosion if not maintained well, which is a downside. It will be interesting to see if the 3V blades are as nicely finished as their other steels or are coated. Its inherent toughness would make high quality finishes much more expensive to create...
 
As far as I know, all he 3V blades are finished with the DLC. All the new ones that are available now, plus the protos of the Tanto series and Tai Pan I handled at Blade.
 
I do hope that Cold Steel will conduct their knife torture test videos on the new 3V versions as they have done on their
sanmai models for years.
 
DLC and PDC coatings really help to confer corrosion resistance to the blade's surface. Many supersteels are known for their outstanding toughness, and it would be time consuming and costly to give them an outstanding finish. Some manufacturers could surely be tempted to use coatings to hide a less than pristine finishing job. I'd love to see closeups of any coated knives right before the "makeup" is applied...

I personally don't like coated blades. No coating is the best coating. :) If you need a no glare blade, bead blast it for your needs. If you want a tool steel or high carbon steel blade, be prepared to maintain it properly.
 
Apocalypse Proof shows a Warcraft Tanto being tested in a wrecking yard. Knife is clamped in a vise of sorts then bolted to a forklift which proceeds to lift a car chained to blade all weight supported by the knife! It's bounced around then stabbed through the hood of the vehicle, Only real damage is the handle scales cracked.
 
San Mai looks cooler, is exclusive to Japan and, given the mirror finish, probably requires much more time and attention to detail to get that shine. But for practical use? 3V should blow it out of the water in terms of toughness and wear resistance. Honestly, I'd love to see more fixed blades in XHP as a stainless alternative to the 3V blades they're pumping out.
 
I don't know the stats on the toughness measurements comparing CPM 3V to San Mai III, but I would think the 3V should much tougher, as it's supposed to have off-the-charts toughness. Not having used 3V, I have no idea if it holds an edge as well as SMIII. I don't like the idea of coatings, but if that's the only way they make 'em, I'll still buy. I've never really liked coatings because I think they're unnecessary. I haven't had any of my uncoated carbon steel knives rust yet. All you have to do is wipe 'em clean with oil after use. If in storage, keep in box and check on them every month or two, cleaning and oiling if necessary. Unless you live in the jungle or near the ocean, if it's stored in the box and NOT in a leather sheath, you probably won't have to clean or oil it for years.
 
One can debate steel properties till the cows come home, but I would like to see Cold Steel do the test below with the new 3V Magnum Tanto XII.
Cold Steel certainly impressed many of us with the Sanmai Magnum Tanto.

MagTanto_zpshm9dnqpf.jpg
 
KenHash said:
One can debate steel properties till the cows come home, but I would like to see Cold Steel do the test below with the new 3V Magnum Tanto XII.
Cold Steel certainly impressed many of us with the Sanmai Magnum Tanto.

MagTanto_zpshm9dnqpf.jpg
Click to expand...

I'm actually guessing you would need a slightly different test. Instead of measuring how far you can bend the knife and have it return to true measure how much force you can bend it with and still have it return to true. Basically, I don't think the 3V would perform as well in the test as done, but I think it would take far more force to bend it anywhere near that far.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
I'm actually guessing you would need a slightly different test. Instead of measuring how far you can bend the knife and have it return to true measure how much force you can bend it with and still have it return to true. Basically, I don't think the 3V would perform as well in the test as done, but I think it would take far more force to bend it anywhere near that far.
Click to expand...
You got a great point there.
 
As far as toughness is concerned, there's a video on YouTube showing a 3V knife being batoned into cinder blocks and concrete slabs, as well as being hammered in point first (hint - it survived). San Mai III would allow for a tarnish free shiny blade finish and its edge would be more corrosion resistant, but the 3V's performance is its forte, and I doubt SM III would fare as well in these extreme tests.

If I had any coated Cold Steel blade in 3V, I would be extra careful to keep the edge oiled. I personally prefer uncoated steel blades aesthetically, but if I had a 3V blade, I'd want it coated, preferably with a high quality PDC or DLC coating.
 
I'm not sure whether it's o.k. to post a YouTube link, so I'm posting a few screen shots taken from the video. Just search for "3V knife test", and you'll see the video... In the video, the poster is also hammering the edge of the knife through a large nail.

3_V_Abuse_Photos.jpg


Cutting_Nail_3_V_Knife.jpg
 
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I doubt anyone here doubts the extraordinary toughness of 3V. The question really is whether a large solid 3V blade will have the
flexibility that Sanmai construction offers. A seconardy question would be just how important is that flexibility to a lengthy 7-12 inch blade.
Cold Steel certainly thought so decades ago.
I tend to agree with Insipid Moniker in that it probably WOULD take more force to get a 3V tanto to bend. But the question I have is whether 3v will go 90 degrees at all or fail before then. Or nt return to true. Of course only of CS shows us a test will I ever know.
 
KenHash said:
I doubt anyone here doubts the extraordinary toughness of 3V. The question really is whether a large solid 3V blade will have the
flexibility that Sanmai construction offers. A seconardy question would be just how important is that flexibility to a lengthy 7-12 inch blade.
Cold Steel certainly thought so decades ago.
I tend to agree with Insipid Moniker in that it probably WOULD take more force to get a 3V tanto to bend. But the question I have is whether 3v will go 90 degrees at all or fail before then. Or nt return to true. Of course only of CS shows us a test will I ever know.
Click to expand...

It would be an interesting test. :) I would place my bets on the San Mai III's superior flexibility. I don't think a gorilla would be able to break either the 3V or the San Mai version unless he was bending it back and forth to failure while it was secured in a vise.
 
Drdan said:
It would be an interesting test. :) I would place my bets on the San Mai III's superior flexibility. I don't think a gorilla would be able to break either the 3V or the San Mai version unless he was bending it back and forth to failure while it was secured in a vise.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. 3V is clearly some tough stuff, but so is San Mai III.
 
Drdan said:
I'm not sure whether it's o.k. to post a YouTube link, so I'm posting a few screen shots taken from the video. Just search for "3V knife test", and you'll see the video... In the video, the poster is also hammering the edge of the knife through a large nail.

3_V_Abuse_Photos.jpg


Cutting_Nail_3_V_Knife.jpg
Click to expand...

That would be Bladeforums very own Nathan the Machinist. To be completely fair, 3V is tough stuff, but that gentleman has also been tweaking and massaging the heat treat to get every last bit of performance out of the steel. I'm very, very happy with CSs 3V, but I'm betting Nathan's would outperform it by a measurable degree.
 
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