New stones for my Spyderco Triangle?

[pacmanfan]

I bought a Spyderco Triangle around 15 years ago, and it worked great with my knife at the time, a Kershaw Blackout (14C28N). I could feel the medium stones removing material at a decent rate, and in not too much time I'd have a good edge that also had good retention. Eventually I lost that knife and got a Kershaw Oso Sweet (8Cr13MoV). I immediately noticed a night and day difference with the steel--the medium stones didn't seem to take material as fast, and it took a lot more work to get an acceptable edge on it. After a few years it was so worthless that I stopped trying to get an edge on it. I blamed the steel, and bought another 14C28N blade, this time a Kershaw Leek.

Well, it wouldn't take an edge anywhere near like my last 14C28N blade, and with barely any use the edge was gone again. I started blaming the stones, so I cleaned them up really well with a brillo pad. It took a lot of small filings out of the stone, which instead of having a sheen all over it now looks a bit darker and sort of matte, with a few scratches in it. Now I can feel it pulling some filings off my blade again.......but it's still really slow going, and the edge retention is still terrible.

I'm not opposed to trying a different sharpening method, but I don't think wet stones or anything freehand where I have to get the angle right by feel is a good fit for me. The Triangle works because all I have to do to get the angle right is keep the blade vertical. I'm more interested in getting new stones for my Triangle, and I see Congress Tools mentioned a bit around here, especially the Moldmaster. But, all the discussions I've seen were around very different steels than I have. What might be a good route to go for my 14C28N? I might even toward S30V or D2 for my next folder, if I could get set up to put an edge on it. I just feel like I can't put an edge on anything right now.

 

[Rusty Shackelford]

If you want to bring a really dull blade back sharp again it'll take the rest of your life with the medium ceramic stones that came with your Sharpmaker. I recommend either getting the diamond or CBN rods for your Sharpmaker or get another guided sharpening system like the Lansky System for setting your edge angle and fixing dinged blades. I use the lansky for reprofiling, repairs, and sharpening extremely dull knives, then I maintain those edges with my Sharpmaker.

This is a blade I did on the Lansky a couple weeks ago, I took it down to about 14° per side. I use the 15° side of my Sharpmaker and a strop for touch ups now, I do this for most of my EDC knives.

 

[Spey]

Your Spyderco stones should have no problem with those steels. I would expect the issue relates to cleaning & dressing maintenance of those stones.

First question would be, how often do you clean your sharpening stones?
Chances are, reduced cutting ability may be directly related.

Second question would be, how often do you refresh your stones (use an abrasive to cut/dress them, refresh the surface grit)?
Chances are, reduced cutting ability may be directly related.

I clean my stones as I use them, and always try to put them away ready for next sharpening (cleaned & dried).
I dress my stones when cutting performance degrades, or dishing becomes noticeable.

RE: Congress MoldMaster Stones (SiC - Silicon Carbide aka Carborundum of my youth)
I went with the thin 1/8" thick SiC stones, as I knew I would be laminating them to aluminum blanks.
Pic-1
The first time I put these stones to blanks, I glued them up-side-down :-/
Used them for a year or so like that, then decided to correct my ignorant error.
Here after I stripped them from aluminum blanks, they are ready for glue application.
Tape across aluminum blanks to control adhesive over-spray of contact adhesive.


Pic-2
Blanks re-attached and hungry for steel

 

[scottc3]

What might be a good route to go for my 14C28N? I might even toward S30V or D2 for my next folder, if I could get set up to put an edge on it.

Asking how your going to sharpen a blade BEFORE buying is well beyond most non-knife hobby folks! You don't need a whole new system based on your steels, various astute observations and questions. OPTIONS - a thin coarse diamond pair, like DMT's or cheapo ones, n use gently, and 2 sided tape and mount on triangle stones; get a couple Idahone's ceramic coarse stone which is 100-200 grit, or Congress Moldmasters SIC stones. We have had 2 Knockouts in 14C28N and we love that steel, the first one was kept sharp with Sharpmaker OEM stones.

 

[Spey]

I'm not opposed to trying a different sharpening method, but I don't think wet stones or anything freehand where I have to get the angle right by feel is a good fit for me. The Triangle works because all I have to do to get the angle right is keep the blade vertical. I'm more interested in getting new stones for my Triangle, and I see Congress Tools mentioned a bit around here, especially the Moldmaster. But, all the discussions I've seen were around very different steels than I have. What might be a good route to go for my 14C28N? I might even toward S30V or D2 for my next folder, if I could get set up to put an edge on it. I just feel like I can't put an edge on anything right now.

There are a number of good threads here on BF related to adapting various stones to the SharpMaker using clamps, tape, etc. to secure stone(s) to the stock stones in the base attachment that would allow you to keep using the SharpMaker system you currently have.

RE: your questions related to MoldMaster stones and alternate blade steels.
MoldMaster SiC stones work fairly well on both S30V and D2
Couple pics to illustrate.

Here, After/B4 pic. of S30V Spyderco P3 reprofiled to 15dps AND cleaned up the ricasso to edge transition.


Similar ricasso to edge transition cleanup & reprofile to 15dps on 10V steel with MoldMaster SiC stones:

 

[scottc3]

Forgot to mention thingiverse has some cool inserts that change degrees stone is presented at, though the same thing can be accomplished in several ways if you do not have access to local 3D printing expert. Search sharpmaker will get you many 3D files, including leadingedge's files.

 

[pacmanfan]

Thanks for all the good input! I've been cleaning my ceramic stones with dish soap, and recently tried an SOS pad when the dish soap didn't seem to be helping anymore. I haven't tried lapping the stones though. I think I will give BKF a try.

I'd probably like something a bit more aggressive than the medium stones, anyway. Am I understanding correctly that the 1/2" triangle stones from Congress will fit right in my Sharpmaker base? What would be a good SiC grit to complement my medium ceramic stones?

 

[scottc3]

Am I understanding correctly that the 1/2" triangle stones from Congress will fit right in my Sharpmaker base?

Yes, 1/2"x6", but I would recommend a pair (you could get one and flip the sharpmaker) of Idahone's Coarse 100-200 grit ceramic ALO as the perfect first additional stone, it is 1/2" triangular x 7" long. It will hande everything Spyderco's ceramic ALO rods will. I did get Idahone's medium, but now I think the jump to sharpmaker's medium is ok.
My 3 Congress MoldMASTER SIC triangular rods are 240, 400, and 600 grit.

 

[scottc3]

(Moldmaster's factory finish reported as 15 thousands 0.015 /0.381mm,on a call to them).

 

[scottc3]

Nothing wrong with Spyderco's diamonds, bet they are the best that could be made for that form factor. I'm gluing Edgpro form factor diamonds to Moldmasters for a friend for whom the Sharpmaker was the perfect fit.