New to Freehand Sharpening, Need Stones

Lenny · Jan 20, 2013

I've gotten quite good sharpening both hollow and flat ground blades with my Spyderco Sharpmaker/ Edgepro Apex combo over the years.
However, I'll be getting a Scandi grind knife soon and will need to start freehand sharpening the wide bevels.
I know almost nothing about regular stones and would like some recommendations.
First, I don't want to break the bank, but I also want the stones to last and work well.
I'd say 3 stones to start with should suffice, but what grits?
I assume most of the better stones are water stones, right?
What sizes and brands should I look at?
Should I look at kits of several stones packaged together (to save money), or just buy what I can afford in each price range and grit requirement?
Let's not turn this into a discussion of how to obtain the ultimate edge.
I just want to put a shaving sharp edge on a Scandi Grind knife.
Thanks all,
Lenny

Magnaminous_G · Jan 21, 2013

Scandi grind, eh? A set of stones for home and something small and pocketable for the field since I'm assuming this is a woods knife. Here's some vids from Ray Mears. He uses a King 1k and 6k, I believe, and a small dual sided stone, not sure what it is. You could opt for the King 1k/6k combo stone for home and a Spyderco double-stuff for the field. You're looking at about $70 for both.

[youtube]Lm53mCOQTR8[/youtube]

[youtube]D4y8u_iJf1M[/youtube]

yujiro hanma · Jan 21, 2013

the dual sided stone looks like a diamond, i'm not sure

Lenny · Jan 21, 2013

Great videos Magnaminous, thanks for posting them.
I'm curious as to why you recommend those grits for sharpening, though.
What's the reasoning behind the 1K/6K recommendation as opposed to something like 800/4K?
Not questioning your expertise, just curious as to why that combo is the best.
Lenny

Magnaminous_G · Jan 21, 2013

I didn't say that combo is "the best." It's a recommendation based on your stated goals. Your stated goals are:

1. "I just want to put a shaving sharp edge on a Scandi Grind knife."
2. "I don't want to break the bank, but I also want the stones to last and work well."

I recommend the 1k/6k combo King stone because it can help you achieve your two stated goals: it is cheap and will put a shaving sharp edge on a scandi edge. It's also widely available and time-tested. Bada bing bada boom.

But to answer your question, 800/4k will be just fine, too. The difference is it will restore a little easier and finish a little less refined. Vice versa for the 1k/6k, but it will restore just fine. Murray Carter does all work, from thinning and reprofiling to final edge on the 1k and 6k King stones. A coarser grit just makes it go faster. If you get the 800/4k, you will be perfectly happy, too. You'd be hard pressed to notice any real difference, to be honest.

David Martin · Jan 21, 2013

Murry Carter also does much sharpening using a Norton combination coarse/ fine India stone. Some here have seen him doing sharpening demonstrations with it at knife shows. This stone can be delivered to your door for 25$ and as Murry has shown it gives a great edge. DM

Magnaminous_G · Jan 22, 2013

David Martin said:
Murry Carter also does much sharpening using a Norton combination coarse/ fine India stone. Some here have seen him doing sharpening demonstrations with it at knife shows. This stone can be delivered to your door for 25$ and as Murry has shown it gives a great edge. DM

This is also an excellent (and even cheaper) option, although it leaves a very coarse edge that I would consider coarser than you'd want for a scandi, bushcraft-style knife that's going to see woodwork.

David Martin · Jan 22, 2013

Everyones allowed an opinion here. My experience has been very different. DM

Obsessed with Edges · Jan 22, 2013

yujiro hanma said:
the dual sided stone looks like a diamond, i'm not sure

The small double-sided stone he uses in the 2nd vid is a Fallkniven DC3/DC4 diamond/ceramic. Looks like the larger DC4 (I have one of these). When new, the diamond side seems to be somewhere between DMT's coarse and fine, in grit (impressions based on my own use; don't recall what Fallkniven specs the grit to, on this one). And the ceramic side is pretty aggressive too (on mine), though his looks a little more 'broken in'.

David

awestib · Jan 22, 2013

I was actually planning of doing a scandi sharpening video coming weekend if I find the time, kind of following recent great videos from HeavyHanded, Magnaminous_G and bluntcut. The reason for this is that I think that I can not be the only one who is challenged by a non-flat scandi grind (I am not talking about a scandi-vex grind here) and the time consuming (many, many hours !!) work it takes to flatten them properly. In my experience and humble opinion, after trying out many different grinding mediums, different grinding techniques and "consulting" our BF sharpening experts directly, I strongly believe that you should invest in the 8 Inch DuoSharp® Bench Stone or similiar from DMT - they are worth every penny! You likely need blue (45 micron), red (25 micron) and green (9 micron), even finer if you want! You would also need some sort of base for them. I like the interrupted, they are light (portable!!), work dry and with water, abrade very well (which you will need) and are very durable if you treat them well. They also stay flat!

In fact the only issue I see with those interrupted DMT stones is that you have to be careful with the tip area when sharpening a "double-bevel" knife but it can also be done! They are not suited for recurved blades however.

lutejones · Jan 22, 2013

Obsessed with Edges said:
The small double-sided stone he uses in the 2nd vid is a Fallkniven DC3/DC4 diamond/ceramic. Looks like the larger DC4 (I have one of these). When new, the diamond side seems to be somewhere between DMT's coarse and fine, in grit (impressions based on my own use; don't recall what Fallkniven specs the grit to, on this one). And the ceramic side is pretty aggressive too (on mine), though his looks a little more 'broken in'.

David

Hey David, I have had 3 of this stones(It's always with me and if you drop it...

) and the first one was exactly like the one on the video but sometime later they changed the ceramic side composition, If you look closely the ceramic has something like sawing marks on the video and the new ones don't and leave a roughest edge.
The diamond side is 25 micron says the web but I agree with you, when new it seems in between DMT coarse and fine, but then It breaks in a lot and feels finer than DMT fine.
The ceramic side leaves a easily shaving edge but a bit toothy, the old one was like a 2000 JWS but know I should say more like an 800.

mateo

Obsessed with Edges · Jan 22, 2013

lutejones said:
Hey David, I have had 3 of this stones(It's always with me and if you drop it... ) and the first one was exactly like the one on the video but sometime later they changed the ceramic side composition, If you look closely the ceramic has something like sawing marks on the video and the new ones don't and leave a roughest edge.
The diamond side is 25 micron says the web but I agree with you, when new it seems in between DMT coarse and fine, but then It breaks in a lot and feels finer than DMT fine.
The ceramic side leaves a easily shaving edge but a bit toothy, the old one was like a 2000 JWS but know I should say more like an 800.

mateo

Thanks mateo. :thumbup:

I've heard/read about the issues with the saw/grind marks on the Fallkniven ceramics, but haven't seen that on mine. I do agree, the ceramic leaves a very toothy bite on an edge, which I like. For a small hone, I'm appreciating it's ability to do a lot of work in a minimum of passes, on either side of the stone. I'm assuming I have one of the newer ones; I bought it in the last couple/three years.

David

David Martin · Jan 22, 2013

Obsessed with Edges said:
The small double-sided stone he uses in the 2nd vid is a Fallkniven DC3/DC4 diamond/ceramic. Looks like the larger DC4 (I have one of these). When new, the diamond side seems to be somewhere between DMT's coarse and fine, in grit .David

Great, thats within the range of the IB8 fine India as well. DM

Magnaminous_G · Jan 23, 2013

Obsessed with Edges said:
The small double-sided stone he uses in the 2nd vid is a Fallkniven DC3/DC4 diamond/ceramic. Looks like the larger DC4 (I have one of these). When new, the diamond side seems to be somewhere between DMT's coarse and fine, in grit (impressions based on my own use; don't recall what Fallkniven specs the grit to, on this one). And the ceramic side is pretty aggressive too (on mine), though his looks a little more 'broken in'.

David

Thank you, David. I was wondering what it was.