New to Knives! Need a little help.

Joined
May 27, 2002
Messages
5
Well, I have been lurking here for a couple weeks now and finally decided to register. There is a ton of info on this board.

I do have a couple questions however. I am sure I can use the search function and go through a thousand posts but I figured this would be a little easier. I am looking for some info or FAQ on different blade steels and there advantage/disadvantages.

Also, what are the differences and applications in flat grinds, hollow grinds and whatever other types of blade edges? What does one do over the other. And last(at least for now), locking mechanisms, I am familiar with them but I don't know the relative benefits the various ones offer.

Thanks for the time,
John
 
Check out this site if you want to get some knowledge on steels and many other knife related topics.

Bob Engnath

*Edited to add.

How rude of me not to have welcomed you to our great big family. Glad to have you join us.
 
WELCOME TO THE FORUMS!!!!

As you mentioned, there is no way one post could give you the answers to all your questions . . . what the guys have given is a great start . . . as usual!
 
First of all, welcome aboard!

That said, the URLs forwarded to you will give you a much better handle on things like grinds and blade steels (I read them myself when I was new to this board).

However, they don't talk about locks much so I figure "Hey, I've got time" so I'm gonna do a little crash comparison on locks.

IN THE BEGINNING... there was the SLIPJOINT (sometimes also referred to as a Force-Lock, don't ask me why...), a Slipjoint doesn't actually lock but provides something resembling security in that, a certain level of force is required to disengage it from it's "Locked" position. Examples of slipjoints include pretty much any "classic" folder pattern on this planet, including Trappers, Muskrats, Pen Knives, Stockmans, Congresses and anything else ya can think of. Slipjoint-like "locks" can also be found at the end of a great many multitools, including Leathermans and Swiss Army Knives. Obviously Slipjoints don't compare with other real locks because... well, they don't lock. However, they are simple and I sometimes find myself enjoying their traditional "charm", it's a nostalgia thing I guess.

The next lock that comes to mind is really not much more but a slight variant of the Slipjoint, the LOCKBACK. The Lockback lock is essentially a slipjoint with a recess cut into the end of the blade that the locking bar can slam down into, towards the butt-end of the knife is a recess cut for you to press down on and disengage it, allowing you to close the knife. Lockbacks actually tend to be very strong, simple, and reliable, but sometimes come at the sacrifice of a convenient or safe one-hand closing. More modern lockbacks like the various Spydercos actually seem to be just fine (I have large hands and thusly have no problem disengage the lock and reaching a finger over the grab that hole and start the closing), more traditional designs (The venerable Buck 110 comes to mind...) involve a bit of risk in one-hand closing, as one must be at the very end of the knife, disengage the lock, and then jerk the knife down with enough momentum to clear the blade recess of the lock, but not enough to sever one's own finger, it's doable, but hardly preferable.

The last of the truly common lock designs is the LINER-LOCK (I would say Linerlock, but as one word, it's actually trademarked by Spyderco).
A large number of knives in the world today have what are called liners, usually thin slices of steel or titanium which are intended to keep the blade and handles from coming into contact with each other, these also increase weight and stiffness of the knife. A Liner-Lock actually has one of the liners (usually the left-hand one) stress-bent so that when the blade is not obstructing it's path (and is thus, fully open) it can spring into place just behind the blade on it's underside, the other side has a precisely placed Stop-Pin recessed in between the liners, this way both the top and bottom ends of the blade are blocked and thus, the blade is unable to close without first shoving the locking liner out of the way. Liner-Locks are one of the most "iffy" locks, in that, their quality, strength, and reliability heavily depend on manufacturing techniques, liner size, design, and materials. It is very easy and cheap to make a crappy Liner-Lock, and it is rather difficult and more expensive to make a good one. Personally, I have very few problems with Liner-Locks, provided they come from a good manufacturer (Like Spyderco, Benchmade, Outdoor Edge, Al Mar, Emerson, etc etc etc). There are some who don't trust Liner-Locks because they perceive them as potentially "flimsy" or "unreliable", this is sometimes true, but often not. Some very highly revered folders in todays world are Liner-Locks (such as the Al Mar SERE 2000, Benchmade AFCK, Buck Strider, Emerson CQC7, Spyderco Military, and a great many folders handmade from genuii of the knife industry) but generally speaking, Liner-Locks do tend to be less strong than alot of other locking systems.

The last of the unproprietary locks is a variation on the Liner-Lock, the FRAME LOCK. A Frame Lock works exactly like a liner-lock except for the fact that the knife itself has no extraneous handles. Instead it has much thicker steel spacers (which perform the exact same function as liners). Frame Locks have a good record for being very strong, as they are very thick and durable. Examples of quality frame locks include: Camillus EDC, Kershaw Chive, and the unavoidable to mention SEBENZA (Happy all you CRK fanatics? :P).

Now I'm gonna do a very brief run down of some of the most popular proprietary locks going about:

Benchmade AXIS - a very strong, very smooth, almost self-cleaning lock. It's popularity can be testified to by the various owners of Benchmade 710s and 806D2s.

Columbia River Knife & Tool LAWKS System - alot like a liner-lock but more secure (theoretically anyway)

The REKAT/Cold Steel Rolling Lock - actually I think REKAT devised it first, but it didn't take long for Cold Steel to steal it and call it it's own, the rolling lock, from what little I hear of it, is supposedly strong but very "gritty" in terms of opening and closing, I am told that functionally it's similar to the manual safety of an AK-47.

Microtech Microbar - another reinvention of the liner-lock wheel, this one features a perfectly standard liner except for the fact that at the locking end it is MUCH thicker (we're talking frame-lock size thickness), this is supposed to add security and longevity to the lock.

Spyderco Compression Lock - while almost any Spydernut will tell you there's so much more to it, in the simplest sense, this really like an upside down liner-lock. It is however, for reasons I do not understand, noticeably stronger.

So there ya go, now you know more about locks than you ever wanted to, and my hands are tired so I'll stop now.

Once again, welcome aboard!
 
YoungCutter, Bravo!

But, in the beginning, about 1750, was the balisong.

And, in the end, still the strongest and most reliable locking, folding knife design is the balisong.

IMHO, we should ask YoungCutter to further research this topic that he obviously has interest and background in, and write a lock FAQ for us.
 
I'll second N2S here. Well done indeed! A nearly perfect, unbiased, technically correct write-up...kudo's! :D

Mel

p.s. The only thing I would add is that the blade of a Lock-Back knife can be made slightly more secure by recessing the lock release on the locking bar, removing some metal at the release with a Dremel tool, scalloping it out if you will...

This of course will void any warranty, written or implied, but it 'will' also keep your modern Lock-Back from folding up on your fingers for the most part... ;)
 
Well done, YoungCutter.

Originally posted by YoungCutter
Spyderco Compression Lock - while almost any Spydernut will tell you there's so much more to it, in the simplest sense, this really like an upside down liner-lock. It is however, for reasons I do not understand, noticeably stronger.

For those in the same boat as YoungCutter, read this thread:
<a href="http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=203917">compression lock, why is it stronger?</a>
 
I'm not all that familiar with it, but I recently handled a meerkat which has Spyderco's new Phantom Locking System which is described on their site as "A pressure release locking system used on the Spyderco MeerKat, model C64. The lock is released by positioning your thumb on the butt end of the handle over the Spyderco bug and two fingers on the back side of the handle then scissoring the two sides in opposite directions." Took me awhile to figure out how to close that thing...first time in a long time I had to ask the salesperson how to close a knife...felt pretty stupid.
 
Don't feel stupid ZENGHOST, myself, my father, and the salesman at my local gun shop spent 15 minutes figuring it out! :P

Gollnick, you are indeed correct that Balisongs are the strongest "locking" folders, since the handles lock and rotate around a fixed blade (rather than the vice versa).
It's a true shame that Bali-Songs are so vilified in this country and especially this state (I live in Illinois).
One obvious drawback of the Bali-Song though is that it is relatively expensive to make a quality Bali-Song, they will never be winners in a "bargain bin" market (as cheapo balis like Jaguars practically fall apart after their first opening).

Thanks for all the positive feedback folks.
For the record I have thought about perhaps generating a more formal document for submission to these boards' FAQs, but I wanted to do some research and get a better handle on the workings of some of the proprietary locks before I really tried that.

Ah well, we'll see, thanks again folks.
 
There is a lot of info out there and I thank you guys for putting it within reach.

Thanks
 
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