New to Sharpening, Which DMT product to get?

W

Wolfpack21

Joined
Feb 19, 2016
Messages
6
Hey guys, new to this forum and have a few questions. I have been looking around at what I should get to sharpen my Mora's and other knives, and see that a lot of guys like the DMT products. What should I get to begin with? I'd prefer not to spend a whole lot if I can. Should I get some diafolds or I see they have the diasharp D4's, which look to be the same size as the diafold and a little cheaper. What do you guys think?
 
What's your budget? How large are the biggest blades you'll want to sharpen? Do you plan to sharpen blades that need lots of work? Very very dull blades, or blades that require reprofiling? Are you concerned about putting a high polish on your blades or making fine push cutting edges?

Brian.
 
I like Dia-Sharp way over DMT. Seems like a denser amount of diamonds...

I use 2 by 6 inch Extra-Coarse and -less so- 2 by 6 Coarse. Plus a stone for finishing.

Gaston
 
Wolfpack21 said:
Hey guys, new to this forum and have a few questions. I have been looking around at what I should get to sharpen my Mora's and other knives, and see that a lot of guys like the DMT products. What should I get to begin with? I'd prefer not to spend a whole lot if I can. Should I get some diafolds or I see they have the diasharp D4's, which look to be the same size as the diafold and a little cheaper. What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

The 4" Dia-Sharp hones are 3/8" shorter than the Diafold hone's length, but the same width. In terms of ease of use, the Diafolds will be easier if used hand-held (because they give you a handle by which to hold it). In a pocket-sized hone, I'd go with the Diafold; they're additionally available in double-sided configuration, which accounts for most of the extra cost for them. Great bang for the buck and great versatility.

You have tons of options; but the above is what I'd recommend if only considering the options you've mentioned. For something like a Mora, you might also consider a simple SiC stone from the hardware store (Home Depot & ACE Hardware both have these), which will handle it easily. Again, for that, you have a lot of options.


David
 
Last edited:
A good budget option is the CKTG Combination Diamond Plate 400/1000. About $35, full sized 8" x 2.75 dual-sided plate.

Unless you are specifically looking for pocket sized hones, in which case either the dual-sized Diafold in coarse/fine for about $40, or the 4" dia-sharp hones in coarse, fine, and extra fine, for about $13 each. I'd want at least the coarse and fine out of those, if not all three.

I don't mind sharpening smaller pocket knives on 4" stones when portability is needed, but a nice 8" or larger bench stone makes it a lot easier, especially for larger knives like kitchen knives.

I get good use out of a simple Norton combination India stone, coarse/fine, used with honing oil. Those can be had for around $20 in several sizes.
 
I was keeping it to those smaller stones mainly for budget and ease of use. I'd like to stay under $40 and have read that diamond stones work well and do quick work without lubricant or maybe a little water. Portability isn't a necessity as I won't usually need them in the field. I'd love to be able to use a 6" or 8" stone but did not think it would be in my price range. I won't be doing any reprofiling or heavy work just mostly minor work and sharpening. So I probably would not need a very very course stone. I would like to put a nice finish on them if I could. Are the CKTG stones good stones? I'm open to any kind of diamond stones as long as they are good quality, I would prefer not to have to replace them soon. Largest knives I would be sharpening would be 6-7" fillet knives, otherwise around 4-5".
 
Last edited:
Trick with diamond hones, any of them, is a very light touch. Let the hones do the sharpening work. Too much pressure and you'll end up pulling the diamonds out of the substrate. I learned that lesson on one of my DMT diamond hones, that is now has some smooth spots that are largely bereft of diamonds.
 
I would not recommend diamonds of any sort for a Scandi ground blade or any large bevel. Not really the right tool for the job.

Sandpaper over glass or a King 1000 would be a good start and within the budget.
 
Does anyone have a lot of experience with the CKTG stone? Would I need to get something finer than that to finish the edge get a hair shaving edge, like maybe a DMT extra extra fine? Or would a strop work?
 
Wolfpack21 said:
Does anyone have a lot of experience with the CKTG stone? Would I need to get something finer than that to finish the edge get a hair shaving edge, like maybe a DMT extra extra fine? Or would a strop work?
Click to expand...
Hi,
You can get shaving sharp at any grit,
raise a tiny burr,
cut it off at double the angle using under 100 grams of force ,
and you're shaving

See this guy do it with 36 grit that is 530micron ( 0.53mm) Knife sharpening : 36 grit dressing stone - Cliff Stamp
400 grit is 23 micron and 1,000 grit is 10 micron
 
I would not recommend diamonds of any sort for a Scandi ground blade
Click to expand...

Yah . . . learn to use water stones first.
I go all rushy rush with diamonds when I have to but real sharpening is done on water stones.
What's the big deal ?
Water stones cut fast and are easily renewable to a fast cutting sharpness if they get glazed or clogged with metal.
Contrary to what many might think diamond plates do get dull and loose diamonds off the plate.

Diamonds


Water stones





It's clear to me.

PS: THE KING 1000 that was recommended . . . that is the red brown stone sitting in the water in the water stone photo.

PPS : that was my first REAL and EFFECTIVE sharpening stone though I had other kinds of stones that sucked.
 
Last edited:
Wowbagger said:
Yah . . . learn to use water stones first.
I go all rushy rush with diamonds when I have to but real sharpening is done on water stones.
What's the big deal ?
Water stones cut fast and are easily renewable to a fast cutting sharpness if they get glazed or clogged with metal.
Contrary to what many might think diamond plates do get dull and loose diamonds off the plate.
It's clear to me.

PS: THE KING 1000 that was recommended . . . that is the red brown stone sitting in the water in the water stone photo.

PPS : that was my first REAL and EFFECTIVE sharpening stone though I had other kinds of stones that sucked.
Click to expand...

:) you can damage or destroy any kind of stone

diamonds aren't hard to damage, just use them dry and with a lot of force or with a lot of force
or rub them against another diamond plate or stone , without lubricant, with a lot of force
or use them to flatten other stones they might last one year
or throw one against the wall and hit it with a hammer :D


if you want them to last for 20+ years and tens of thousands of passes use lubrication and 1/2 lb of force
lubrication can be water with rust inhibitor, or windex, or simple green
when you're done pat them dry
 
Wolfpack21 said:
I was keeping it to those smaller stones mainly for budget and ease of use. I'd like to stay under $40 and have read that diamond stones work well and do quick work without lubricant or maybe a little water. Portability isn't a necessity as I won't usually need them in the field. I'd love to be able to use a 6" or 8" stone but did not think it would be in my price range. I won't be doing any reprofiling or heavy work just mostly minor work and sharpening. So I probably would not need a very very course stone. I would like to put a nice finish on them if I could. Are the CKTG stones good stones? I'm open to any kind of diamond stones as long as they are good quality, I would prefer not to have to replace them soon. Largest knives I would be sharpening would be 6-7" fillet knives, otherwise around 4-5".
Click to expand...

I just bought three 1 x 6 eze-lap diamond stones for less than $60 from knifecenter. Extra course (150 grit), medium (400 grit), and superfine (1200 grit). I didn't know what I was missing. Took me about 2 hours to put an edge on 3 knives, one made of rex 121 at 68 rockwell, one of Vanadis 10 at 64 rc , and one of Vanadis 6 at 65 rc.
Those are some seriously wear resistant steels at high hardness. Had I been playing with silicon carbide it would've taken all day plus a lot of another. These knives had never had a secondary bevel put on them.

The jump in grit is not too high.

I need to be able to put an initial edge on knives, that's why I got the extra coarse stone. I would suggest for normal sharpening to get two stones, the medium and super fine. That'd be $30 plus shipping which would end up less than your $40 cap and do almost anything you could need to do to get a nice sharp knife. Follow it up with a budget strop ( think beer case cardboard and some strop compound) and you'd be all set.

You could also check out www.vidbrusok.com. They have a wide selection of diamond stones for a good price. But the prices are listed in rubles and I've never used them to say they work well. A lot of Russian guys use them and say they're good.
 
Last edited:
Jason B. said:
I would not recommend diamonds of any sort for a Scandi ground blade or any large bevel. Not really the right tool for the job.

Sandpaper over glass or a King 1000 would be a good start and within the budget.
Click to expand...

No diamonds on big bevels? I'm curious Why?

Thanks Jason
 
DeadboxHero said:
No diamonds on big bevels? I'm curious Why?

Thanks Jason
Click to expand...

Wrong tool for the job, the diamonds dig deep into the surface and leave ugly scratches. Also, because new abrasive is not being exposed and released abrasive is not moving in the slurry the cutting action is rather slow. i could go on with many more but I won't, if I'm not using a diamond plate for large flat bevels it's probably good indication it doesn't work well.
 
Jason B. said:
Wrong tool for the job, the diamonds dig deep into the surface and leave ugly scratches. Also, because new abrasive is not being exposed and released abrasive is not moving in the slurry the cutting action is rather slow. i could go on with many more but I won't, if I'm not using a diamond plate for large flat bevels it's probably good indication it doesn't work well.
Click to expand...

I noticed some of that in grinding a Helle scandi blade on a diamond hone. That blade in particular showed the scratches, and the softish laminate (18-8 stainless) I think was pretty quick to clog the surface of the hone, so the going was slow. I transitioned between that and some wet/dry paper over granite, as well as on a SiC stone, to see what'd work best among the options I had on hand. The wet/dry paper and the SiC stone were quicker grinding (both used wet, BTW) and got the job done, after which I polished up the bevels on a translucent Arkansas stone used with oil, which also worked well for that part of the job.

Helle actually does suggest using either a diamond hone or a 'wet stone' (I'm assuming a waterstone or oil stone) for sharpening their blades, though I assume that's in reference to general upkeep and may not be a reference to heavier grinding, if it's needed. For a quick field touch-up, I wouldn't have any qualms about using something like a Fine, EF or finer diamond hone, any of which can leave nice working edges in just a handful of passes; hence, little worry about clogging the hone in that usage.


David
 
Last edited:
Diamonds and wide bevels
Click to expand...
large surfaces tend to call for more pressure; that's bad for the diamond plate.

If I'm not using diamond plate for large flat bevels . . . good indication it doesn't work well
Click to expand...
It sure doesn't.

slurry the cutting action
Click to expand...
I have spent a huge amount of trial and error (and trial and success) sharpening (and polishing) A-2 on all manner of sharpening stones (curiously enough for those who don't know A-2 will polish a hard Arkansas stone and not even leave metal behind in the stone. A whole other world from 1095 steel).
so
I am convinced that when ever I have SLURRY I am slowing down the sharpening process. Especially for the harder steels and A-2 is not all that super when it comes to super steels. When I want to Geeeeeter done I wash off the slurry as it builds up and DO NOT encourage it with the misguided use of some rub around stone.
nah dude, nah
a clean, well groomed stone with out all the rolly polly grit on it is going to cut faster than a stone with "ball bearings" made of grit all over it. Grit locked into the matrix of the stone is best/fastest.

wet/dry paper
Click to expand...
is all well and good I suppose but the thing to know about silicon carbide is that it breaks down fairly rapidly and is a "cut and color" tool meaning it tends to polish what is there rather than remove material. It tends to burnish the surface and smooth out scratches.

A faster sand paper which tends to mostly CUT rather than "color" (smooth and polish) is alumina zirconia.
So I would replace the coarser grits of wet/dry with alumina zirconia and then use the wet/dry just to polish that sharp edge.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for all of the info guys! So I should not go with diamond then? I would have preferred them because I think they would be easier to use. Would diamonds work well for my Mora 155 6" fillet knife? Because maybe I could get an extra fine diamond hone to touch that up and get a regular stone for my Mora Companions and other knives.
 
"touching up" is best done on some sort of strop. I hate strops as any one who has read my drivel knows.
Sharpening is always best done from coarse to fine. To get the edge to touch up with a fine stone you must steepen the sharpening angle. Do that a couple of times and you have screwed up the edge geometry of your knife. Sure it might shave hair but it is now taking way too much effort to push it through a fresh carrot.

You are not going to be able to relax until you get a diamond stone, sounds like, so get one. I would go with a coarser one rather than a fine one; that would be more effective and practical. Make your last few passes on an edge very very light and it will serve you well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top