New to Smithing, Steel choice??

yoda4561

yoda4561

Joined
May 28, 1999
Messages
2,606
Hia everyone, I've been dabbling in and out of knifemaking for the past 4 years or so, and I've finally decided to get off my lazy ass and start forging some blades :) The real dillema Im facing right now is what steel to use. I know that 5160 and the 1060-84 steels would be easiest and yield likely the most consistant results, but Im "seriously" tempted to jump straight into 52100. Admiral steel is selling 3/4 inch rounds for roughly the same cost or less than 1084. I've heard its more difficult to work, but as the first knife I forged was barely over black heat, and I was using a 20lb steel die resting on soft dirt I dont think the actual steel moving will be a problem. I'll be using a forge similar to the one Tai Goo showed over at CKD (forgebq I think)

What Im worried most about is the heat treat and proper working temp for the steel. I realize that I wont get the absolute most out of it for a good time, but if Im real careful can it be done with a charcoal forge and magnet for normalization and hardening??

Thanks for any replies or comments about working the steels above, especially pertaining to 52100's quirks.
 
Until recently I did al my forging on charcoal. Now I have the gas.
lets go back a few hundred year may be more all charcoal. Heat is heat
or is it.

The advantage of gas is simply that it is harder to burn your steel if you have a regulator set.

The problem with charcoal is if you are not paying attention to your task at hand you can over heat the metal and burn a hole in it or have it drop right off.

To start with I would be inclined to make a large charcoal fire big enough to cover the hole area to be treated. Try to keep the balde at an even heat on both sides to reduce the risk of bending.

Avoid putting the blade too close to the air entry point as this is where the fire is the hotest and the air will help to burn the steel.

I have had good results with charcoal. It is well up to the task.
52100 I am not sure what that is. I use a lot of spring steel. Some coil some flat bar.
god luck. watch the thin edge of the blade it will get up to heat real
easy.
 
Charcoal will work fine for you..
The main thing is that you keep practicing with what ever heat source you have.I would suggest a couple of old car springs from the junk yard to start learning how the heat works in the forge first,This way you don't burn up any expensive steel while learning just were and when to put the steel in the fire.Tangs are burnt off easy when beggining (ask me how I know:D ) and tips also.Main thing to remember is that the thinner you get the steel the faster it gets hot but also the faster it gets to cool to forge.And if you work it to cool you can crack it quick.
Good Luck and enjoy the journey into the wonderful world of BladeSmithing:cool:
Bruce
 
Heh, I guess I had the opposite experience with my first forged blade, we spent about 10 minutes at a time waving plastic tupperware storage box lids at the fire to get the steel a dull red color.... kinda took a while to get it to move..lol I have some old leaf springs right now that I can use for 4-5 small-medium knives, and a bunch of rebar (unknown grade, I'll need to check sometime) and alot of 1095 in 5/32, I guess if I can figger out how to hot cut the stuff in half (its 1 1/4 wide) I can make some nice small stuff outta it.

Oops: one other question, since Tai is so sold on wood I figgered that would be a great idea for me, the most common wood source around here is pine, hardwoods (oak usually) are a bit harder to come by but if I spend a day a week driving around I can find alot of it near where they do controlled burns and just lying around. Will pine (and its sappy contents) be a big problem, or something I can work around if Im careful. Im sure I can ask home depot or some other lumberyard where to get large supplies of what Im sure they consider useless wood chips too.
 
rebar's great...if you want a knife that wont ever harden or hold an edge :)

im pretty sure that rebar is mostly mild or low carbon steel and wont work. leaf spring work great though.

as far as wood goes, oak and locust make way better charcoal than pine does. i think density of the wood is the key.

* edited to add: ok, maybe some rebar works ;)
 
Some rebar (grade 60) has enough carbon to harden quite nicely. I haven't made a finished knife out of it yet, but it hardened enough to shatter when thrown on a concrete floor.

WS
 
I've made well over a 100 knives out of 60 grade rebar, it does harden and it ain't a waste of time to work with. I've had customers that have done a whole elk without having to touch up a rebar blade. I'm not talking rebar you buy at a hardware store or Home Depot. 60 grade rebar will have a mark on it that says 60 grade. Normally you'll find 60 grade bar on large commercial jobs, bridges, dams, and industrial jobs....Ray
 
so, folks say that truck springs are generally 5160, what kind of steel is 60 grade rebar? until today i had no idea this could be used.

aint the internet great :)
 
Rebar is a little of this and a little of that. Lots of railroad track and other good stuff, its not all crap like most people think. Carbon is also added to the mix. By what I can tell by grinding it I'd say its at least .60 carbon. I believe 1060 is considered a high carbon steel but on the lower side.
 
Leaf spring is OK but I have more fun with coil spring. It'll build up your arm! People that have bought forged coil spring have been very happy with the knives. Ed F says "the more forging, the better blade."
Lynn
 
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