New to waterstones...Advice?

C

clunk

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Sep 12, 2012
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So in the past year I was only sharpening using sharp maker rods and the Spyderco double stuff. I stopped using the sharp maker stand and mostly stuck to free handing with the rods. I can get a hair whittling edge on my Endura 4 off the ultra fine rod without a whole lot of effort so I am pretty confident in my sharpening skill.

Recently I bought a set of Norton water stones. The set consists of double sided stones in 320/1000 and 4000/8000 grit with a carbide flattening stone. I was having trouble getting an edge on the stones until I asked the guys on sharpthings chat and they reminded me to form a burr, which I had been forgetting to do.It seems that on the water stones the burr takes much longer to form then on the sharp maker rods. I checked with my jewelers loupe and I am hitting the apex so I know that's not a problem. Is the reason the burr takes longer to form just because water stones are softer? Or is it just the way that water stones cut?

Another thing I heard is that the jumps between grits is too large to refine the scratch pattern well. Does that mean my edges would be sharper if I had stones at grits between the 1000, 4000, and 8000? Or will refining the scratch pattern more just take more time on each individual grit?

One more thing, I put together a good sized denim strop with two sides. It works great for removing very small burrs and making edges shinier (not quite mirror) but I don't have any compound to load it with. Someone suggested 5 micron to de-burr and .5 micron to polish and get a really fine edge. What do you guys think?


Any advice on using water stones would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 
bill deshivs is the guy to ask about waterstones. remember to never go edge first into a waterstone. you can cut deep into the stone and mess it up.
 
richard j said:
remember to never go edge first into a waterstone. you can cut deep into the stone and mess it up.
Click to expand...

So sharpen using the same method as stropping?
Yeah I guess I did cut a small scratch into one of the stones. Luckily it was really shallow
 
All waterstones are going to have a different feel. I have the Nortons - they're somewhat aggressive and many times I cannot raise much of a burr with them either, tho it usually is there, just very small and doesn't catch light as one would from a ceramic hone or similar. A big part of this is that the abrasive and binder break loose as you go and produce a lapping effect. That's why the bevel has a dull finish to it at the lower grits, and why you cannot get as nice an edge off the stone edge-leading as you can with a 'hard' benchstone. You can go edge first into the waterstones but should (must) always finish edge trailing (stropping). In most cases this IS your strop - a few passes on newspaper, plain leather, etc are all that you might wish to use following the 8000 (unless you're really planning on shaving with it). You can easily manage a grit progression with the Norton system - on plain steels you can even skip the 4000 tho it will take a few minutes to make the jump to the 8000. Use extremely light pressure and keep the surface wet - this will increase feedback and make gouging the stone less likely.


One other thought, have lots of patience at first - waterstones have their own learning curve.
 
Waterstones create less of a burr than most other stones so that could be part of your issue. The water keeps the edge cool causing less deformation and if any slurry is formed it typically keeps the burr to a minimal.

The jump in grit is fine, that's the nice thing about waterstones they let you progress further with larger jumps in grit. It's only when you start to sharpen high wear steels that more stones may be needed.

Waterstones produce a very fine edge and at 8000 grit you won't find much need for more than a bare strop. Most 8k stones are 1 Micron abrasive size, the Norton is rated a little different and is 3 Micron. Both will produce very sharp and polished edges. Denim is excellent for removing burrs but I would leave it at that. The surface is not smooth enough for micro compounds.

The type of stroke you use is a personal choice and there is nothing wrong with edge leading strokes. Gouging the stone is something you will need to learn how not to do but is something that will happen. Use edge trailing strokes at the end of using each stone to get the best refinement.

Here is one of my recent videos that may help to answer some of your questions.
[video=youtube;7gG-klEXG_g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gG-klEXG_g&feature=plcp[/video]
 
Good points by HeavyHanded & Knifenut. Knifenut - excellent video, your best - that suji begs for papering raw & cooked meat.

Benefits of using both edge leading & trailing strokes:
1) blade always in contact with the stone. It would be more likely to slash/dig into the waterstone at landing spot if you use lift & land with edge trailing stroke.
2) cancel out directional pressure deltas & wobbling.
3) keep mechanical movement simple.

My deviated sharpening approach with waterstons, some info could be useful.

An approach (I experimented with quite a few) for a shave ready Endura4 vg-10 - steps:
1) Waterstone 1K, mindlessly edge lead & trail strokes at around 28* inclusive angle, until raise burr on onside then the other. Not even bother to remove burr.
2) Waterstone 4K, mindlessly edge lead & trail strokes until bevel has a haze finish. Not even bother to remove burr and or wire.
3) Waterstone 8K, edge lead & trail strokes, until bevel almost mirror finish. burr and wire are smaller but definitely there.
4) use a piece of balsa to scrap/file the burr/wire to oneside (i.e. to roll the burr/wire) or the side opposite from step 5)
5) use dmt-eef with edge-lead gently file off the rolled burr/wire at 30* incl. Repeat 4) & 5) until burr free(prob after repeat twice or three times).
6) a few super light pressure strop strokes on diamond charged strops at 1.0um, 0.5um, 0.25um, 0.1um.
This step is no fun because just 1 careless swipe could rounded the edge and or create a new wire. I hate (yes, a strong feeling) strop in this step, so I actually hone my edge at these grits on diamond charged 'Surfaces', to avoid rounded+wire+overed-convex pains.
* for super-fine grain steels, stropping is not as painful because the burr & wire can easily knock away.
7) ~30 strop strokes per side on bare horsebutt leather.

For non-shave edge, I skips selective steps & diamond compound grits.

I enjoy using this edge for fruits & vegi duties as well.
 
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