Newb: First satisfactory bevels and some questions

[DWidling]

Hello everyone!
First post...and first off, thanks to everyone on this forum who has provided advice. Through your contributions I've set up a small shop and have begun doing something I've always wanted to do, which I could never have done without the help I found here.

So I've got about 25 blades under my belt (mostly mild-steel blanks, for practice) and I've just put the bevels on my first satisfactory 01 knife. It's of my own design and am pretty happy with the results so far. I decided to start right off the bat without jigs, fixtures, etc, knowing full well that while the frustrations I would experience early on (and there were frustrations...many of them), that in the long run I would likely be better off having acquired freehand grinding skills. So here's the result:

So now a few questions. I built a no-weld grinder, which is working really well except for two small issues (or not so small):

1) The belt will not stay centred on the platen, no matter what kind of adjustments I make to the tracking. it will sit perfectly well on either side of it though, which means I can really only do blended plunge lines, and not nice crisp ones. I've checked the alignment of my wheels and that doesn't seem to be an issue. One of them is ever so slightly off the horizontal, so that might be it. Any ideas how to fix this issue, or what it could be? Here's the setup:

2) When I get into higher grits and thinner belt backings I begin to get "artifacts" in the bevels. I figure this is from either something making my platen uneven or else something being stuck to the back of the belt. My platen is a ceramic glass, but it does seem to pick up some very minor defects and particles while I grind. Can anyone confirm that this is the issue, and what a possible fix might be? Otherwise I'm not able to get anywhere above a 60 or 120 grit without gouging my blades (see below)

Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[DWidling]

Oh no the photos didn't work...of course. trying again:

 

[RuaridhHunter]

Oh no the photos didn't work...of course. trying again:

When you say it sits perfectly well on either side of it, do you mean it sits perfectly well on one side or the other? Also do you have a variable speed set up?

 

[drew1972]

After your low grit belts try trizac gators. They are much better than the thin jflex for cleaning up your bevels. And last a lot longer. I only use jflex for handles and sharpening.

 

[DWidling]

When you say it sits perfectly well on either side of it, do you mean it sits perfectly well on one side or the other? Also do you have a variable speed set up?

It will sit well on either side. I can take it to sitting with 1/4 inch of belt off the edge of the platen to nearly half an inch, on either the left or right side of the platen. But when I try to bring it right over the center it seems to pull to one side or the other and then settle. I have a three speed setup using pulleys.

After your low grit belts try trizac gators. They are much better than the thin jflex for cleaning up your bevels. And last a lot longer. I only use jflex for handles and sharpening.

Perfect, will do, thanks for the advice!

 

[seanj]

I have a no-weld grinder as well and had the same trouble with mine for a long time. Getting everything exactly lined up was the key for me. Which means you need to check your alignment in all directions. That includes the bearing shaft. I also noticed the shaft for the bearings looks long. The shorter it is the less flex. Also, I can't see a spring. I assume from your assembly there's a spring, but I just can't see it. You might try tightening up your tension or getting a heavier spring. I use a 30 lb spring on mine.

I had to tinker with mine quite a bit to get it right. And sometimes with certain belts it will still pull to one or floats back and forth. Sometimes changing the tension helps.

 

[DWidling]

I have a no-weld grinder as well and had the same trouble with mine for a long time. Getting everything exactly lined up was the key for me. Which means you need to check your alignment in all directions. That includes the bearing shaft. I also noticed the shaft for the bearings looks long. The shorter it is the less flex. Also, I can't see a spring. I assume from your assembly there's a spring, but I just can't see it. You might try tightening up your tension or getting a heavier spring. I use a 30 lb spring on mine.

I had to tinker with mine quite a bit to get it right. And sometimes with certain belts it will still pull to one or floats back and forth. Sometimes changing the tension helps.

I was afraid that might be the case...do you have any tips for alignment in different directions? I couldn't find a good way to align the wheels with one another, so I did what I could using makeshift methods. Are there tried and proven methods? Anything you can recommend that worked for you? Thanks for the insight!

Yes, there is a spring, and I've upped the tension quite a bit. Could stand to be a bit more I suppose, though I'm not sure how much is too much tension.

 

[E.Carlson]

the "artifacts" look like you have something stuck to the platen.

 

[Natlek]

I was afraid that might be the case...do you have any tips for alignment in different directions? I couldn't find a good way to align the wheels with one another, so I did what I could using makeshift methods. Are there tried and proven methods? Anything you can recommend that worked for you? Thanks for the insight!

Yes, there is a spring, and I've upped the tension quite a bit. Could stand to be a bit more I suppose, though I'm not sure how much is too much tension.

You can use tin thread or true flat piece of wood long enough . Set the thread to touch one end of the drive wheel and pass through the center of the wheel and then slow move it till it touch other side of drive wheel /thread in direction to center of one of idler wheels .When thread touch other edge of drive wheel check how it is aligned with that idler wheel ..in same way check other wheel .Same way is with true flat board ...Simple and precise as it can be .....
Get it ?

 

[Rhinoknives1]

This might help with your centering problem on the Platen ... take a roll of 1” blue painters tape and crown the very center of your idler wheel about 1/8” .. I’ve seen this help with your issue

 

[Fred.Rowe]

Don't let your goal of grinding free hand limit your appreciation of what jigs, fixtures, thingy's and the like can allow you to accomplish in your shop. I'm not talking about what I produce so much as I am wanting there to be an open mind when it comes to seeking the best tool for the job. The longer you are in this craft the more you will appreciate what I am saying here.
You have a good start on the blades you've ground so far. Enjoy the learning, Fred

 

[DWidling]

You can use tin thread or true flat piece of wood long enough . Set the thread to touch one end of the drive wheel and pass through the center of the wheel and then slow move it till it touch other side of drive wheel /thread in direction to center of one of idler wheels .When thread touch other edge of drive wheel check how it is aligned with that idler wheel ..in same way check other wheel .Same way is with true flat board ...Simple and precise as it can be .....
Get it ?

I'll try this and let you know if I understand it! It makes sense to me, but I've got bolts hanging out the end of the idler wheels where I don't have one on the drive wheel. Might try doing this with the thread at the centre of the wheels and seeing how it works.

This might help with your centering problem on the Platen ... take a roll of 1” blue painters tape and crown the very center of your idler wheel about 1/8” .. I’ve seen this help with your issue

Unfortunately I have tried this and it didn't make any difference. Would have been such a simple thing.

Don't let your goal of grinding free hand limit your appreciation of what jigs, fixtures, thingy's and the like can allow you to accomplish in your shop. I'm not talking about what I produce so much as I am wanting there to be an open mind when it comes to seeking the best tool for the job. The longer you are in this craft the more you will appreciate what I am saying here.
You have a good start on the blades you've ground so far. Enjoy the learning, Fred

Thanks Fred! I've got nothing against jigs and such, just love to add complexity where it doesn't need to be added. I have thought about your bubble jig and have heard so many good things...might pick one up.

Thanks all!

 

[seanj]

I was afraid that might be the case...do you have any tips for alignment in different directions? I couldn't find a good way to align the wheels with one another, so I did what I could using makeshift methods. Are there tried and proven methods? Anything you can recommend that worked for you? Thanks for the insight!

Yes, there is a spring, and I've upped the tension quite a bit. Could stand to be a bit more I suppose, though I'm not sure how much is too much tension.

What Natlek mentions in his post about using a string or flat piece of wood is basically what I did. I took a long straight edge and checked the alignment that way.

 

[Natlek]

I'll try this and let you know if I understand it! It makes sense to me, but I've got bolts hanging out the end of the idler wheels where I don't have one on the drive wheel. Might try doing this with the thread at the centre of the wheels and seeing how it works.
Thanks all!

What you need to check is if the wheels are parallel to each other .All of them , even tracking wheel need to be parallel to other wheels to work properly ..No need string to go through center of any wheel ...check them this way , make no difference .Other thing what you can try is to increase tension on belt .Push tool arm with idler wheels more forward then you do that now so tracking wheel will stay more down ..that will increase tension on belt .

 

[Rhinoknives1]

I’m glad to hear you’re learning to grind free hand. You will learn important motor skills and gain insight into your designs and ways to make them better. I know to many younger makers that started using jigs and can’t do a damn thing without them. Jigs have their place. Still nothing replaces knowing how to grind freehand..