Newbee here, How do I best sell my collectible automatics without breaking any law?

T

trackhound

Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Messages
6
I searched the forum and didn't find a good answer. Well at least not what I wanted to hear.
So I've got 4-5 interesting items but it seems like there are no legal transactions between individuals(collecters) that involve shipping over state lines.
In states that allow possession, are there restrictions at knife shows or out in the parking lot? I'd like for the sales to be above board without the possibility of coming back to bite my a**. How does one dispense a collection these days. If I advertise online and sell does that mean either the buyer has to drive to me in Oregon or I drive to them?
 
Well, first of all, you need a Gold membership to sell on here. Hinting at selling, or "items" to sell without a membership is against the rules.
 
Not hinting at all that I'll sell them here or advertise them here. I just want to know how best to go about it.
Sorry that my honest inquiry was misintreperted as something else.
 
Your might go to the exchange forum and see how other sellers comply with the law. Looks like some have the buyer inform themselves of local laws.
 
I moved this to the Knife Laws forum.

Bladeforums has a system of paid memberships tied to permission to sell here. You need certain memberships to sell, depending whether you own the items, created them, or bought them for resale. This restricts what unpaid members can discuss, as hinting at a willingness to accept offers under the table.

The FAQ (our rules) at http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/faq.php
Paid memberships at http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/payments.php
Exchange section rules at http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/announcement.php?f=699&a=98
 
I don't know about Oregon, but here in California it is illegal to sell a switchblade if the blade is 2 inches long or longer. I also know that it is a federal crime to ship switchblades through the US mail.

And while it may be legal to posess a switchblade, it may be illegal to have one in a vehicle (here in California, though it's illegal to CARRY a switchblade with a blade 2 inches or longer, it's legal to POSSESS one at home, but its illegal to have a 2+" switchblade in your vehicle). Not being able to have a switchblade in ones vehicle might make it difficult to buy one in person and stay within the letter of the law (how do you get it home). But this all depends on the laws where you wish to sell.
 
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You are correct in that there is no legal way for collectors to sell and ship switchblades over state lines. US Code Title 15, Chapter 29 bans any introduction of switchblades in "commerce between any State, Territory, possession of the United States, or the District of Columbia, and any place outside thereof."

If the buyer physically travels into the state where the seller lives for the transaction (or vice versa, all that matters is they are physically in the same state), then the federal law is not applicable. The federal law has no other effects whatsoever and has no jurisdiction on sale in the same state.

With federal law satisfied, you must also comply with state law. Switchblade regulation with states has four types: Possession, Sale, Open Carry and Concealed Carry. It is possible for possession (ownership) to be legal, but for sale or even the mere offering for sale to be illegal. In my state of Maryland, you can possess a switchblade and carry it openly even in public, but it is illegal to sell or advertise them, and illegal to carry them concealed on one's person.

Oregon has no laws that specifically single out switchblades. They are legal to possess and sell within the state unless you are a convicted felon (166.270). There are no special restrictions on how you choose to sell them. They are illegal to carry concealed under the general ban on concealed weapons (166.240) and weapons within public government buildings (166.370).
 
Like the page , National Switchblade Association on Facebook. A page all about legalizing switchblades
 
So, without trying to stir the pot, I went to the Exchange forum and saw other individual members shipping sold autos. Is this all at their own peril or there some special loophole I'm unaware of?
As a former now retired firearms dealer, manufacturer, importer,exporter in the incredibly restrictive state of CA, I'm well acquainted with those kinds of laws. How can machine guns, short barrel shotguns and destructive devices can be sent back and forth via bonded carriers (UPS, FedX) over state lines to qualified individuals or dealers but not an automatic knife??
I could purchase autos directly from some of the well known manufacturers for use in "special projects" and for some very limited sales to military and LE (6-25 years ago) all through the again bonded carriers.
So collector to collector shipping is still a problem-yes?
 
You're kinda referring to two separate things.

Switchblades are habitually sold by both professional retailers and small-time collectors over state lines. This is still illegal. You've probably even seen some retailers say the will sell to military and law enforcement if ID is provided. This is still illegal.

The fact that 99% of them get away with it has nothing to do with the law or loopholes, but rather the lack of resources and motivation to enforce it. Mail is private and cannot be intercepted and opened without some very special warrants, and there is very little about a switchblade that makes it identifiable by X-ray. And for a little dinky knife that opens with a button, it's not worth the feds time when they have drugs, poisons, explosives, laundered money, and invasive species to worry about.

Now the other part you are talking about is when the knife is simply being mailed for repairs. In my interpretation and opinion of the law (which is competent if I do say so myself, but also worth what you paid me for it ;) ), this is not "commerce" and should not count. Remember, the law prohibits interstate commerce, not shipping. Many of these major manufacturers like Benchmade and Spyderco have gotten burned in the past under the federal law for selling autos over state lines, and so have become extra paranoid about the matter. They're the ones who often refuse to service autos or make you jump through hoops like using an authorized dealer.

Regarding how sometimes special restricted firearms and devices can be handled with greater ease than switchblades, I feel you that it's stupid. I think this stems from the fact that the switchblade laws are simply neglected so badly that nobody bothered to put useful exceptions and provisions in place.
 
glistam said:
You're kinda referring to two separate things.

Switchblades are habitually sold by both professional retailers and small-time collectors over state lines. This is still illegal. You've probably even seen some retailers say the will sell to military and law enforcement if ID is provided. This is still illegal. The fact that 99% of them get away with it has nothing to do with the law, but rather the lack of resources and motivation to enforce it. Mail is private and cannot be intercepted and opened without some very special warrants.
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I'm not sure where he'd be shipping them to, but I do know that my state law (NC) only states that automatic knives can not be offered for sale within in the state and only prohibits carry (even then it only directly mentions this when concealed and doesn't mention open carry, though I assume open carry isn't allowed either) and not ownership. So if the knives are not prohibited for sale in your state, as per my understanding it would be legal for me to purchase said knife as I am purchasing it out of state (technically). I would be allowed to have it on my private property and would only run into an issue if I were to be caught carrying it. Though I personally wouldn't worry about it as like was said earlier, it takes some very complicated legal stuff to intercept mail as it is considered confidential material. Also, sale to law enforcement is a listed exemption (to my knowledge in NC state law) and the carry of automatics by law enforcement is allowed.
 
Trackhound fortune has smiled upon you for living in Oregon. The annual OKCA meet in Eugene every Spring is one terrific answer to your query. Here is a link for your amusement: http://www.oregonknifeclub.org/okcashow.html I'm there on the last day each year, Sunday and looking for a 4" handle spearpoint Wire Jack, if the creek don't rise.
 
This is all great information and I appreciate the intelligent responses. Being familiar with the myriad of overlapping Fed, Calif, County and City firearms laws and the consequences of violating those, even unintentionally, I'm naturally cautious. Automatic knife restrictions pale in comparison.
You've eased my angst a bit.
Again thanks for the good sensible advice.
Upgrading to Gold tonight !!
 
JSMcustoms said:
I'm not sure where he'd be shipping them to, but I do know that my state law (NC) only states that automatic knives can not be offered for sale within in the state and only prohibits carry and not ownership. So if the knives are not prohibited for sale in your state, as per my understanding it would be legal for me to purchase said knife as I am purchasing it out of state (technically). I would be allowed to have it on my private property and would only run into an issue if I were to be caught carrying it. Though I personally wouldn't worry about it as like was said earlier, it takes some very complicated legal stuff to intercept mail as it is considered confidential material. Also, sale to law enforcement is a listed exemption (to my knowledge in NC state law) and the carry of automatics by law enforcement is allowed.
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That sounds exactly like the laws here in MD. They can't be sold or offered for sale within the state, and can't be carried concealed, but they can be owned and carried openly. But you're right, if you or I were to travel to Oregon, buy an auto, and bring it home, we'd be fine; no law would be broken. Actually if I bought one from someone in the state I would not be breaking any laws either, but the seller would. Same goes if I mail-order from out of state; seller's problem not mine, but the transaction would "tainted" by that, since the knife could even be subpoenaed as evidence.

JSMcustoms said:
(even then it only directly mentions this when concealed and doesn't mention open carry, though I assume open carry isn't allowed either)
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Never assume. If the law doesn't say it's illegal, it's not illegal.
 
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