Newbie first post-looking for advice to optimize sharpening with Edge Po Apex

B

bdaabat

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Jul 2, 2025
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Good day all! Newbie first post.
Looking for advice for optimizing sharpening with Edge Pro Apex for sharpening kitchen knives.

I'd purchased this sharpening system ~ 10 years ago (maybe more). It LOOKED like it was something that would be really easy and straight forward...so much so that any chowderhead could easily get good results without a lot of effort. I guess I'm a special kind of chowderhead because my results were...inconsistent. Put it away for a while.

I'm now retired. I love cooking and hate using dull knives. I am exceptionally fortunate to have more time to devote to sharpening. Decided to break out the EPA again and give it another shot. Get much better results! Am wondering if there are things that I can do to optimize the process. What do I mean by optimizing the process? For me, that means figuring out what I can do to quickly and efficiently get knives into good working order.

Joined this forum looking for guidance.

Unfortunately, watching videos from the Edge Pro site say one thing. Comments from folks on other forums say other things. As a newb, it's confusing!

And, reading multiple forums, it's clear there are a HUGE number of rabbit holes one can dive into when discussing knife sharpening (e.g., what's the steel on the blade, what are you using the knife for, what's the angle of the original grind vs. what angle do you want now?). Again, as a newb, it's confusing!

I'm just trying to make my existing kitchen knives work better so I can get back to cooking.

Thank you all in advance!

Bruce
 
bdaabat said:
Good day all! Newbie first post.
Looking for advice for optimizing sharpening with Edge Pro Apex for sharpening kitchen knives.

I'd purchased this sharpening system ~ 10 years ago (maybe more). It LOOKED like it was something that would be really easy and straight forward...so much so that any chowderhead could easily get good results without a lot of effort. I guess I'm a special kind of chowderhead because my results were...inconsistent. Put it away for a while.

I'm now retired. I love cooking and hate using dull knives. I am exceptionally fortunate to have more time to devote to sharpening. Decided to break out the EPA again and give it another shot. Get much better results! Am wondering if there are things that I can do to optimize the process. What do I mean by optimizing the process? For me, that means figuring out what I can do to quickly and efficiently get knives into good working order.

Joined this forum looking for guidance.

Unfortunately, watching videos from the Edge Pro site say one thing. Comments from folks on other forums say other things. As a newb, it's confusing!

And, reading multiple forums, it's clear there are a HUGE number of rabbit holes one can dive into when discussing knife sharpening (e.g., what's the steel on the blade, what are you using the knife for, what's the angle of the original grind vs. what angle do you want now?). Again, as a newb, it's confusing!

I'm just trying to make my existing kitchen knives work better so I can get back to cooking.

Thank you all in advance!

Bruce
Click to expand...

bolded above for emphasis and I'll reply to those items in that order.

sometimes its just takes effort.
to optimize the process, its best not to let them get very dull to begin with, then you can touch them up with a "finer" stone, rather than having to start with a coarse stone in order to get to the apex. That will also make it the most quick and efficient.

in no uncertain terms, you have to remove material from both sides of the blade to meet at a point to be sharp. there are no shortcuts or tricks around that.
I like to color the edge of the blade with a sharpie, and for kitchen knives, I'm looking to match the existing angle. play with the course stone a bit to find that angle, then start sharpening - both sides until all the sharpie marks have been removed. it helps to look at the edge with some magnification - a cheap loupe works for this just fine. it should be noticeably sharp comign off the coarse stones. if its not, you need to continue sharpening. there are lots of posts and tips on how to know if you've reached the apex of the edge so I'm not going to rehash those.

once its sharp coming off the coarse stone, you can move up to a finer stone and repeat. dont change the angle, try to keep the knife in the same location relative to the sharpener surface adn stone, and check your work periodically with magnification. continue with finer and finer stones until you reach an edge you are happy with. for me, that is not very high for kitchen knives. Something in the Medium to Fine = 400 to 1000 grit range - depending on the stones as they are rated all over the place.
 
l1ranger said:
bolded above for emphasis and I'll reply to those items in that order.

sometimes its just takes effort.
to optimize the process, its best not to let them get very dull to begin with, then you can touch them up with a "finer" stone, rather than having to start with a coarse stone in order to get to the apex. That will also make it the most quick and efficient.

in no uncertain terms, you have to remove material from both sides of the blade to meet at a point to be sharp. there are no shortcuts or tricks around that.
I like to color the edge of the blade with a sharpie, and for kitchen knives, I'm looking to match the existing angle. play with the course stone a bit to find that angle, then start sharpening - both sides until all the sharpie marks have been removed. it helps to look at the edge with some magnification - a cheap loupe works for this just fine. it should be noticeably sharp comign off the coarse stones. if its not, you need to continue sharpening. there are lots of posts and tips on how to know if you've reached the apex of the edge so I'm not going to rehash those.

once its sharp coming off the coarse stone, you can move up to a finer stone and repeat. dont change the angle, try to keep the knife in the same location relative to the sharpener surface adn stone, and check your work periodically with magnification. continue with finer and finer stones until you reach an edge you are happy with. for me, that is not very high for kitchen knives. Something in the Medium to Fine = 400 to 1000 grit range - depending on the stones as they are rated all over the place.
Click to expand...
Thanks Josh!

My apologies. I should have been more clear in my initial message.

I've gone through the sharpening process several times now and am able to get good edges consistently. One of the things that really helped with the consistency for me was purchasing the magnet. I'd previously had a great deal of difficulty maintaining the knife being sharpened flat on the table of the sharpener. Seemed like just applying a bit of pressure with the stone would sometimes cause the knife to move on the table, leading to inconsistent edges. That meant not only frustration for me that things didn't turn out properly (and meant additional time attempting to fix the issue). It made me question what I was doing with the rest of the process. At the time, I was a busy working person and ended up putting the system away for a while.

Hopefully better stated question: Are there other tips/tools available to help ensure that the process can get done quickly/efficiently/consistently?

One of the things that I wasn't able to determine from the Edge Pro videos is approximate number of "passes" (sorry, don't know the term for taking the stone across the entire edge of the blade) one needs to make when starting off. I understand that there's going to be variability, but as a newb, it's very helpful to get some reasonable boundaries (e.g., does a somewhat reasonably maintained 8 inch chef's knife need ~4 passes per side with each grit stone or closer to 40?).

After reading a bunch, there are folks that are using different stones than what came with the system. Should I look into alternatives?
The system I purchased didn't come with a strop. That seems like something useful. Should I get that to refine the final edge?

Thanks!
 
The number of passes depends on the stone used, the stone's condition, the amount of pressure applied, and, of course, the steel and the amount of metal that needs to be removed. Ball park after you have finished with the first stone is 5 passes per inch of blade, per stone, per side. The Edge Pro stones need to be soaked for a few minutes before using and a little dish soap in the water is a good idea. I like to deburr with a strop and for your needs I would say bare leather is preferable.

Make sure you compensate for different stone or strop thicknesses.

Make sure you dress your stones occasionally, not just to flatten but to refresh the abrasive. Some will advocate for using enough pressure to break the stone down while sharpening to keep it from glazing. I disagree with this and use less pressure and dress them to avoid glazing. I cannot overemphasize how important it is to dress your stones. The stones I have dressed always work better, sometimes the difference is black and white, even with brand new stones that shouldn't need it. My preference is loose abrasives on a flat plate.
 
its probably going to be closer to 40 passes, but there are no hard and fast rules.

this is where the sharpie and the magnification are going to come in handy so you can inspect it and see where if you've made enough passes to reach teh apex
 
Diemaker said:
The number of passes depends on the stone used, the stone's condition, the amount of pressure applied, and, of course, the steel and the amount of metal that needs to be removed. Ball park after you have finished with the first stone is 5 passes per inch of blade, per stone, per side. The Edge Pro stones need to be soaked for a few minutes before using and a little dish soap in the water is a good idea. I like to deburr with a strop and for your needs I would say bare leather is preferable.

Make sure you compensate for different stone or strop thicknesses.

Make sure you dress your stones occasionally, not just to flatten but to refresh the abrasive. Some will advocate for using enough pressure to break the stone down while sharpening to keep it from glazing. I disagree with this and use less pressure and dress them to avoid glazing. I cannot overemphasize how important it is to dress your stones. The stones I have dressed always work better, sometimes the difference is black and white, even with brand new stones that shouldn't need it. My preference is loose abrasives on a flat plate.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply Diemaker and for the perspective on numbers of "strokes" or passes per side. That is helpful!

You also mentioned compensating for different stones or strop thickness and "dressing" stones.

I assumed that the thickness of the stones that were included with the kit would be pretty close to the same thickness. Is that not the case? Or, are you saying the stones will get worn down over time, creating differences that are potentially impactful on the ability to get a reasonable edge? How does one compensate for this?

BTW: I have no idea what one does to "dress" a stone. When I look online for a definition of the term, it suggests dressing to maintain and restoring the sharpening surface. How does one do this with the stones I have (whatever came with the Apex kit)?

For someone who has sharpened a total of ~ 50 knives using these stones, is this an issue? Or, is this more of a concern for someone doing this more regularly and who has sharpened hundreds of knives?

@ I1ranger: Thanks for the recommendation for a magnifier (in addition to the Sharpie). Have added one to the Amazon cart.

BTW: Just watched this video from Outdoors55 on stropping. Very helpful for this noob.

Bruce
 
If you go to the Edge Pro website on page 2 is a video of Ben leveling a stone. The link did not work for me, but if you can get that to work it would be helpful to watch.

The stone might not come the same thickness and they van get dished over use. You might consider doing a leveling of your stones. If you have a dial caliper you can measure the thickness of your stones. Hold a straight edge across the stone to see if the middle is dished versus the ends.
 
Use a coarse enough stone to start so you get the bevel to form ALL THE WAY TO THE APEX .
Some times a "coarse" stone like a 220 is not coarse enough and one has to use a 60 or 80 to form decent bevels in a short enough period of time to get started with .
THEN the 220 and finer can be used for years once the factory bevels are CORRECTED . Some of the stuff that comes out of western factorys are not designed to cut things with . I'm not sure what if any thing they have in mind when choosing those obtuse and or nonsimetrical bevels but it isn't matter seperation .

Use the correct stone for the job :
Norton water stones for your basic high carbon including really good Japanese knives that are not super steel .
Then Shapton Glass stones for the middle teir super steel up to ~ 3 % Vanadium
At or above 4% vanadium start looking at diamond / CBN stones and some very light diamond stropping .

USE THE STONE THICKNESS COMPENSATOR
USE SHARPY MARKER .
RELIGIOUSLY USE A FAIRLY HIGH POWER JEWELER'S VISOR 5 to 10 Power TO KEEP AN EYE ON WHAT IS HAPPEING ON THE VERY APEX .
USE EXCELLENT LIGHTING / SOME JERWELER'S VISORS HAVE RECHARGABLE LIGHT RIGHT ON THEM .

Enjoy your edges !
 
Thanks Wowbagger!

I had just watched a video from someone on YouTube (can't recall who right now...sorta been binge watching knife sharpening videos) who had much the same advice about starting with a more coarse stone if you are not getting the sharpness you are looking for.

Thanks jjg6319 for the info! Will check the link to see if I can access it.

Q: How does one know/figure out the type of steel used on a particular knife?

I'm sure none of my knives would be made using a "super steel"...I'm a frugal bugger! I'm just curious how one determines the steel alloy mix.

On order: stone leveling kit from Edge Pro; spring, bovine strop and 1 micron diamond paste from ChefKnifesToGo; magnifier with light from Amazon.

Any other recommendations?

BTW: Thank you all! I'm just starting out and feel kinda like I'm drinking from the firehose with all of this information. And that's exactly what I'm looking for! I appreciate it!

Bruce
 
Look up or email manufacturer of your knives to figure out what steel they are.


And…… good job everyone. Always refreshing to see people actually helping out instead of just blasting people. Watching this thread because im debating getting this set up.

Also B bdaabat there is a really handy search function if you havent found it yet for this forum. You can break down what you are looking for. Enjoy and welcome!!
 
bdaabat said:
been binge watching knife sharpening videos
Click to expand...
I am one of the most enthusiastic to say : If you want an edge that is actually useful at cutting tough to cut matter then use a sharpening jig to form the edge
but
I can highly recommend the Michael Christy HAND SHARPENING videos.
different sort of perspective on sharpening (literally) and he uses Edge Pro size stones , hand held , and I find that when I take a knife out of a box and it is sort of usable . . . if it wasn't for that GIANT rolled edge and goofy dissimilar sharpening bevels . . .
his method really comes in handy.
I can grab a couple of little stones , make the edge usable for the day and sharpen it right when I get the time .

I recommend BOTH because it seems jig sharpening helps you learn what you are trying to do when you sharpen by hand and hand sharpening helps you learn jig sharpening and the finer points . That was not very well put but . . . do both .
 
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B Bigburly912 : Thanks! Will need to dig into the manufacturers sites more. I have a mix of blades from Victorinox to Kiwi to Mercer to Henkels right now.

Umkay...further down the rabbit hole.

Saw this video from outdoors55 today.

I'm now reconsidering what I'm doing.

Is it crazy to grab a manual stone and just bite the bullet and learn how to sharpen manually?

I'd assumed that this process was...a process. Like, one needed to sit alone in the woods with a pile of crappy, dull knives and a pile of expensive Japanese wet stones, and not emerge until years later after you finally master the process and return with amazingly sharp knives.

That's one of the main reasons I bought the EPA years ago! I was concerned about the learning curve associated with manual sharpening!

Is that not the case?

The thing that got my attention in the above video was Alex saying he can get a knife sharpened rapidly using a fairly basic, reasonably priced diamond stone system.

If true, that's VERY appealing. I'd love to be able to get through the process rapidly and with little messing around.

What is the experience of folks here with learning how to manually sharpen?

Oy!
Bruce
 
I will say that all of the above applies. The Apex is a solid system that works.

Your stock stones should do your kitchen knives just fine.

A thickness compensator is a stop ring you set on the vertical shaft after you find your sharpening angle to maintain that angle between stones. Gritomatic.com has them and will show the ones compatible with the Apex.

Hand sharpening is much more of an "art" versus machining. I am still working on my skill in that department.

If you are getting good edges with the Apex use that for your kitchen knives. Get some beater knives and a few relatively inexpensive hand stones like a set of basic King India stones and practice on the beaters.
 
bdaabat said:
Looking for advice for optimizing sharpening with Edge Pro Apex for sharpening kitchen knives.
Click to expand...

Sharpening your knife isn't rocket science, but it's still precision work. Approach is as something as a task that needs to be done to perfection. Hamfisted sharpeners get varied results.

First, just copy the angle of the factory edge. There's no need to go through the work of changing the angles until you get a good handle on what you're doing.

Next, you can't count passes. Ten? A hundred? It doesn't matter. You're not done until you're done. You must sharpen all the way to the apex of the blade. If you don't, your knife won't be sharp. If you're not sure if you're hitting the apex, or if your knife isn't coming out sharp, you need to figure out why. I've found that cheap magnifiers are the single most useful tool for figuring out exactly what's going on at the edge. I use a 4x Optivisor for most of my work, but any magnifier in the 5-10 range will be good.
 
Thanks RustyIron!

I've recently acquired a magnifier. I got a cheap electronic "microscope" for ~$30. The idea of being able to see things on a larger area was appealing. Pretty cool to be able to see the changes over time!

And, I've embraced the suck of starting to learn a new skill.
B

Thread 'Noob second post: biting the bullet to hand sharpen'

Noob second post.

I'd recently started down the path of figuring out how best to use the Edge Pro Apex. I'm recently retired and now have the time to do things that I didn't make time for previously. The initial purpose for wanting sharp knives is solely because I enjoy cooking. And, cooking isn't a lot of fun when you have dull knives. But, it's become something more than that.

I got the EPA ~ 10 years ago because I didn't think that I'd ever be able to have the time to develop the skill to hand sharpen or the time to be able to get knives sharp rapidly just using my hands and stones...
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Bruce
 
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