Newbie forge question

C

cramnhoj

Joined
Aug 27, 2004
Messages
27
Hi, I'm new here and was thinking of getting into knifemaking as a hobby. I have a question with gas forges. I was looking into the NC Tool Whisper Deluxe and saw it was outfitted to use propane gas, is it possible to use LP gas instead (as it is more readily available in my place)? Are there other parts I have to get too in order to use LP gas?

Also, upto what temperature will the forge be able to produce when using LP gas instead of propane? Lastly, I've read that different metals require certain ranges of temperature for tempering and such, can the temperature on a gas forge be set? As in, can a temperature gauge or something be installed to read the current temperature and a valve for the gas be installed to regulate it?

TIA
 
Welcome to the forums, you've found the right place to ask questions.

Unfortunately you've found the wrong guy to answer your own question. I use propane to fire my Reil-style forge and don't know how well LP would work. I do not measure the temp in my forge but there are various ways to do it. I believe there are waxes that melt at certain temps you can use to judge the temp in your forge. If you want to control the temp perfectly I think your options would be electric or salt.

Here are a few resources:

Salt Pot
Don Fogg's Salt Pot
Kevin Cashen's Salt Info

Home Made Burners and Forges
Ron Reil's Site

A Few Posts About Electric Ovens
Even Heat
Paragon
Home Built

Hope some of this helps. There are others who surely will be able to answer your actual question. ;)
 
Welcome to Shop Talk. As just mentioned LP gas is the same as propane. You may be thinking about natural gas which wont work well because of the higher pressure needed that propane can provide with the right regulator (1-15psi) I have seen the whisper by NC and think its a good forge. Remember to buy or build one that will go to 2400 degrees for welding. 2300 degrees is welding temp. I like the ones that are forced air (fan type) personally. I use an OMEGA hand held pyrometer and a thermocouple to read my temperature in the forge. I can easily tell forging, welding and normalizing temps and adjust the reguator and air/fuel ratios to achieve my desired temps. It works great for me and I strongly recommend one.

If you are serious about this venture just keeping asking questions.

Bruce Bump
 
Thanks for the replies guys, I'll look into the OMEGA hand held pyrometer and thermocouple.

What do you guys mean by LP is same with propane? My sister is a chemical engineer and when I asked her she told me those two were very different. Do you guys mean the gas forge would accept both LP and propane or that the performance of the LP and propane gas is the same? :confused:
 
I was under the impression that "LP" stands for "Liquid Propane", which is regular propane compressed into a liquid. Since one is a gas and one is a liquid I suppose she could say they're totally different, but that seems awfully nitpicky to me since it turns back into a gas when it leaves the cylinder anyway.
 
Hmmm, here in my place it's liquid petroleum gas (comes from crude oil) and we call it LPG, and I thought it was the same with what people here call LP gas.
 
Is the LPG the same as natural gas, like you'd use in a stove? If so then that is different, it doesn't come in high enough pressure to work well though some people have made it work.
 
Natural gas is different from LPG. Kitchen stoves typically come with a switch so that they can be used with either type of gas.If it comes from a gas line it's natural gas and if it comes in a tank it's propane [LP, LPG]
 
My inlaws owned a gas company before they retired (at age 50... luckys sobs). They sold both LPG as "liquid petroleum gas" and propane. Propane is a hotter-burning refinment of LPG. Most companies who manufacture forges offer LP varieties.

Cramhoj... welcome to the forums. My advice is to get propane if you can. Its more or less the knifemaker's standard.
 
Go to the LPG website.They say," Liquified Petrolium Gas.also called Propane,...." It is made by the refining industry.It has a higher carbon content than Natural Gas,and thus burns hotter.They call it LP in some places,and propane in others.Either way,it's the stuff you burn in your BBQ grill.Portable 20 pound tanks work fine for a whisper lowboy (thats what I use),I keep five tanks in a rack behind the forge.
 
Guess I'll look into acquiring propane, looked into it in our local gas company and says it's 90% natural gas, 5% propane, and 5% butane.
 
cramnhoj said:
Guess I'll look into acquiring propane, looked into it in our local gas company and says it's 90% natural gas, 5% propane, and 5% butane.
Click to expand...


Well, the standard is definitely propane, but you can use natural gas for your forges too. Mike Alexander is one person I know that uses natural gas and achieves forge welding temperature with it, you just have to make sure the supply pressure is high enough. If you have it piped in for your house already, you may be able to have it run to your shop in all likelihood and come out cheaper and with less hassle than having 100# bottles of propane filled. It will just require you to change the orifice size for the burners.

:)

-Darren
 
Looked again at the web and Shell is the one with LP gas having 90% methane, 5% propane, and 5% butane. Meanwhile Caltex says their LP gas is 50% propane and 50% butane. I wonder how different is that with commercial propane?

Another question, is the only reason natural gas can't be used for propane gas forges is that it doesn't have high enough pressure? Implying that if it were also from a gas tank like propane gas, would it also achieve the same performance of propane, as in same temeperature, etc?

Thanks.
 
Darren

Do you know what Mike Alexander did to be able to use the natural gas? I am guessing that he had to play with the burner design.

Thanks.

Phil
 
pso said:
Darren

Do you know what Mike Alexander did to be able to use the natural gas? I am guessing that he had to play with the burner design.

Thanks.

Phil
Click to expand...


Hi Phil,

It's been a year or better since I've talked to Mike about this, however, if memory serves me well, he really only had to play around with the orifice sizing. Again, going by memory, he had the gas company install a high pressure port near his shop. You might try contacting him directly for any specifics, Mike doesn't hang out on the forums as far as I know but does so on the Knife-list or else his website is:

http://www.mstarling.com/Alexander/alexander.html

:)

-Darren
 
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