Newbie needs help sharpening tanto

[Noobieknifeuser]

Hey guys, I'm a newbie knife sharpener and I would like some advice on sharpening my Cold Steel Tanto Lite. With me, I only have normal stone and lansky Multifunction sharpener (Which ruined my other knife). What should I do to sharpen my tanto?
I will post the picture of my tanto and stone below this. Also, my brother tried to sharpen my tanto and f*cked it up. Now, my tanto tip is very dull
Pictures: http://imgur.com/a/Fnosv
Edit: Should I buy Worksharp sharpener machine to sharpen my knives?

 

[tommyw1968]

Im sure others have better advice, but I use a small belt grinder and start at 220 and go up to 1200 followed by a leather belt with green compond. Takes some practice but works wonders. I can shave with my cold steel tanto ii in a pinch.

 

[bucketstove]

Hey guys, I'm a newbie knife sharpener and I would like some advice on sharpening my Cold Steel Tanto Lite. With me, I only have normal stone and lansky Multifunction sharpener (Which ruined my other knife). What should I do to sharpen my tanto?
I will post the picture of my tanto and stone below this. Also, my brother tried to sharpen my tanto and f*cked it up. Now, my tanto tip is very dull
Pictures: http://imgur.com/a/Fnosv
Edit: Should I buy Worksharp sharpener machine to sharpen my knives?

Hi,
Do you mean the tip point (or other point) is rounded as in not so pointy ?
Or do you the edge near tip won't slice paper?

Have you sharpened any knives before? What method do you use?

 

[Noobieknifeuser]

Hi,
Do you mean the tip point (or other point) is rounded as in not so pointy ?
Or do you the edge near tip won't slice paper?

Have you sharpened any knives before? What method do you use?

Luckily, the edge is still pointy. About top 30 percent of the blade is dull because of my brother. I did about +30 minutes of sharpening with stone (with water). However, it can't pass the paper test

 

[bucketstove]

Luckily, the edge is still pointy. About top 30 percent of the blade is dull because of my brother. I did about +30 minutes of sharpening with stone (with water). However, it can't pass the paper test

So, you keep the stone on the table? And you use some lubrication like water?

How are you holding the knife?

One hand (and all fingers) on the handle one hand (and two-three fingers) on the blade?

Does the knife wobble a lot as you're sharpening (left/right and up/down)?

How did you find the angle, permanent marker trick? Balance the edge on the stone (push with fingertip to balance)?

How hard are you pushing ? If you put stone on a scale and try sharpening how many pounds does it register?

In the picture the tip area looks fairly even/consistent,
so you're probably holding angle correctly,
which means your stone might be loaded with metal and need cleaning (soap and brush, or oil and brush, or run in dishwasher)
or worn/glazed and need conditioning (raise a little slurry by scratching with a nail, or short rub on slightly coarser sandpaper )
but pictures can be tricky and maybe it is your technique

30 minutes sounds like a lot time , esp for the tip only, but I've been there about a year ago, when you go it alone, nobody to watch you and point out stuff
I would do a lot of wobbling left to right, so half the blade wasn't making contact
I would also flex/bend the blade (paring knife) , so "half" the blade wasn't making contact
then I'd also do a lot of up/down wobbling, so the angle would change from too low to too high
most frequently I'd be lowering the angle instead of sharpening at existing angle -- unintentional regrind -- this is slow
gripping the handle too hard so the fingers/wrist would start to feel it
I also didn't focus in raising a giant burr in the beginning,
instead I tried and struggled with the edge reflection method
...

 

[Noobieknifeuser]

So, you keep the stone on the table? And you use some lubrication like water?

How are you holding the knife?

One hand (and all fingers) on the handle one hand (and two-three fingers) on the blade?

Does the knife wobble a lot as you're sharpening (left/right and up/down)?

How did you find the angle, permanent marker trick? Balance the edge on the stone (push with fingertip to balance)?

How hard are you pushing ? If you put stone on a scale and try sharpening how many pounds does it register?

In the picture the tip area looks fairly even/consistent,
so you're probably holding angle correctly,
which means your stone might be loaded with metal and need cleaning (soap and brush, or oil and brush, or run in dishwasher)
or worn/glazed and need conditioning (raise a little slurry by scratching with a nail, or short rub on slightly coarser sandpaper )
but pictures can be tricky and maybe it is your technique

30 minutes sounds like a lot time , esp for the tip only, but I've been there about a year ago, when you go it alone, nobody to watch you and point out stuff
I would do a lot of wobbling left to right, so half the blade wasn't making contact
I would also flex/bend the blade (paring knife) , so "half" the blade wasn't making contact
then I'd also do a lot of up/down wobbling, so the angle would change from too low to too high
most frequently I'd be lowering the angle instead of sharpening at existing angle -- unintentional regrind -- this is slow
gripping the handle too hard so the fingers/wrist would start to feel it
I also didn't focus in raising a giant burr in the beginning,
instead I tried and struggled with the edge reflection method
...

Hmmm.... I do hold the handle with my right hand and press the blade against the stone (I don't use a lot of force on the blade) with my fingers. The blade doesn't wobble and I also never used the marker trick because I didn't know about the trick. I just guessed the angle by "feeling". My stone is pretty old so it may need some cleaning.... BTW, how do I do the marker trick? I don't understand the concept of the trick.

 

[bucketstove]

Hmmm.... I do hold the handle with my right hand and press the blade against the stone (I don't use a lot of force on the blade) with my fingers. The blade doesn't wobble and I also never used the marker trick because I didn't know about the trick. I just guessed the angle by "feeling". My stone is pretty old so it may need some cleaning.... BTW, how do I do the marker trick? I don't understand the concept of the trick.

try pressing a little harder, some stones want a little more force before they'll start cutting well
or try "loading"/pushing/leaning more toward the edge when you're balancing on the stone at the correct angle,
I often don't think about it and end up loading/leaning more towards the spine but its usually with narrow blades

having another look at the picture, there seems to be only a little loading (the rust color)
can't really see if there is glazing/wearing (doesn't look like it),
which would shows up as a glossy/glassy/shiny reflection on a dry stone
but its only a minor issue about getting "optimal" results
just press harder usually does the trick
even worn stones will cut the simpler steels,
pressing harder will release/break/condition some grit/slurry from stone



the permanent marker trick is just like "feeling" for the existing angle but with your eyes
it comes in handy for multi bevels edges that will balance at two or more angles
it comes in handy for more round than flat edge bevels (more convex) that will not balance easily
you paint the edge with permanent marker or "sharpie"
you take a stroke or three and look where the marker marks are removed
if its up at the shoulder behind the edge your angle is too low, you're regrinding/rebeveling
if its only at the apex/tip of the edge, your angle is too high, you're microbeveling/deburring
if its being removed the entire width of the edge bevel (or 90%+) you're at the correct angle so just keep grinding
if its being removed high and low but not in the middle, your edge is hollow ground, it is what it is

 

[HeavyHanded]

Hey guys, I'm a newbie knife sharpener and I would like some advice on sharpening my Cold Steel Tanto Lite. With me, I only have normal stone and lansky Multifunction sharpener (Which ruined my other knife). What should I do to sharpen my tanto?
I will post the picture of my tanto and stone below this. Also, my brother tried to sharpen my tanto and f*cked it up. Now, my tanto tip is very dull
Pictures: http://imgur.com/a/Fnosv
Edit: Should I buy Worksharp sharpener machine to sharpen my knives?

If you are not familiar with sharpening and really like the knife, I'd switch to a different knife to learn on - an old kitchen knife or 4 bucks at the Goodwill will buy a couple to practice on. As bucketstove mentions, your ability to find and hold the angle is critical to getting the job done well and in a reasonable amount of time.

Tantos need to be sharpened as two separate operations to keep a good transition between the two, the initial curve and tip done separate.

The stone looks in OK shape and that steel should turn out reasonably sharp. Keep in mind for a newbie the fine side of your stone will make an arm hair shaving, paper draw cutting edge fairly easily, but will not make a pushcutting edge without a lot of familiarity. It sounds like you're really starting out from scratch, and might benefit from a dose of visual concepts.

Check out Murray Carter to see the mechanics he uses.

Forum member Jason B has a youtube channel with good videos:
https://www.youtube.com/user/MrEdgy81?nohtml5=False

The sharpening block I make (link below in my signature) has some video references, start the first video at 7 minutes to skip the product specific content.

Martin

 

[Noobieknifeuser]

try pressing a little harder, some stones want a little more force before they'll start cutting well
or try "loading"/pushing/leaning more toward the edge when you're balancing on the stone at the correct angle,
I often don't think about it and end up loading/leaning more towards the spine but its usually with narrow blades

having another look at the picture, there seems to be only a little loading (the rust color)
can't really see if there is glazing/wearing (doesn't look like it),
which would shows up as a glossy/glassy/shiny reflection on a dry stone
but its only a minor issue about getting "optimal" results
just press harder usually does the trick
even worn stones will cut the simpler steels,
pressing harder will release/break/condition some grit/slurry from stone



the permanent marker trick is just like "feeling" for the existing angle but with your eyes
it comes in handy for multi bevels edges that will balance at two or more angles
it comes in handy for more round than flat edge bevels (more convex) that will not balance easily
you paint the edge with permanent marker or "sharpie"
you take a stroke or three and look where the marker marks are removed
if its up at the shoulder behind the edge your angle is too low, you're regrinding/rebeveling
if its only at the apex/tip of the edge, your angle is too high, you're microbeveling/deburring
if its being removed the entire width of the edge bevel (or 90%+) you're at the correct angle so just keep grinding
if its being removed high and low but not in the middle, your edge is hollow ground, it is what it is

Okay, I'll try to use the sharpie technique with my father's old knife.

 

[Noobieknifeuser]

If you are not familiar with sharpening and really like the knife, I'd switch to a different knife to learn on - an old kitchen knife or 4 bucks at the Goodwill will buy a couple to practice on. As bucketstove mentions, your ability to find and hold the angle is critical to getting the job done well and in a reasonable amount of time.

Tantos need to be sharpened as two separate operations to keep a good transition between the two, the initial curve and tip done separate.

The stone looks in OK shape and that steel should turn out reasonably sharp. Keep in mind for a newbie the fine side of your stone will make an arm hair shaving, paper draw cutting edge fairly easily, but will not make a pushcutting edge without a lot of familiarity. It sounds like you're really starting out from scratch, and might benefit from a dose of visual concepts.

Check out Murray Carter to see the mechanics he uses.

Forum member Jason B has a youtube channel with good videos:
https://www.youtube.com/user/MrEdgy81?nohtml5=False

The sharpening block I make (link below in my signature) has some video references, start the first video at 7 minutes to skip the product specific content.

Martin

Okay, I'll take a look at the video. I'll practice sharpening my father's old knife today afternoon

 

[cbwx34]

Luckily, the edge is still pointy. About top 30 percent of the blade is dull because of my brother. I did about +30 minutes of sharpening with stone (with water). However, it can't pass the paper test

It's hard to tell from your picture, but it looks like you spent that time on only one section of the blade... leaving the rest untouched? If so, that's not a path you want to continue... you're going end up altering the blade's shape, possibly making things even more difficult. It also looks like the angle is way off from the rest of the blade (although again, it's hard to tell).

While I recommend sharpening your own blades, one option to consider on this one... it looks like for 10 bucks Cold Steel will resharpen the blade. This should restore the edge to the proper shape, and in the meantime you can practice sharpening on other knives, so you'll be able to properly maintain this one in the future. (Have your brother pay the $10). Just an option to consider, but it can be hard to learn/work on a blade that's been significantly altered. (Not saying you can't do it, just giving an option). Either way, I wouldn't recommend continuing to grind in just one area, if that's what's going on here.

 

[Noobieknifeuser]

It's hard to tell from your picture, but it looks like you spent that time on only one section of the blade... leaving the rest untouched? If so, that's not a path you want to continue... you're going end up altering the blade's shape, possibly making things even more difficult. It also looks like the angle is way off from the rest of the blade (although again, it's hard to tell).

While I recommend sharpening your own blades, one option to consider on this one... it looks like for 10 bucks Cold Steel will resharpen the blade. This should restore the edge to the proper shape, and in the meantime you can practice sharpening on other knives, so you'll be able to properly maintain this one in the future. (Have your brother pay the $10). Just an option to consider, but it can be hard to learn/work on a blade that's been significantly altered. (Not saying you can't do it, just giving an option). Either way, I wouldn't recommend continuing to grind in just one area, if that's what's going on here.

Okay, I'll try to get my brother pay for the damage. Meanwhile, I'll practice my sharpening. Hopefully I can get enough money to buy Work Sharp WSKTS. Also, would you tell me things NOT to do when sharpening?

 

[bucketstove]

Okay, I'll try to get my brother pay for the damage. Meanwhile, I'll practice my sharpening. Hopefully I can get enough money to buy Work Sharp WSKTS. Also, would you tell me things NOT to do when sharpening?

Don't worry about looks
Don't be afraid of practice, with 1-4 inch knife, one to three 5-10 minute sharpening sessions a day
The knife isn't damaged,
blunting is regular wear,
if you use the knife it will get scratched and it will blunt and you'll have to sharpen it
if you sharpen the knife the shape will change eventually
its not a big deal its just what happens and means you're actually using your knife
so just practice with the stone and you will improve
by the time you've saved up for a "work sharp"
you'll probably realize you don't need power equipment for sharpening
if you don't want to scratch up the blade when sharpening use some masking/painters tape

You seem to be making good progress, so take a break from videos, and practice a dozen times before viewing any more videos, after that you can read and view some of this info, it will start making more sense

What lutejones linked is a great introductory video on microbeveling and/or "steeling"/honing/burnishing, by using high angle ( 20-30 degrees per side ), doing that will straighten any rolls , and also sharpen the apex, basically you'll see results real fast, but after a few sharpenings,, you'll have to do more

So start with instinctive sharpening, try it at least three times, before watching a second video.

This would be the follow up video (actually video after that), try it with your std. dry stone (I just bought another one at dollar tree the other day )
basic sharpening, raise a tiny burr, cut it off at elevated angle, shave how to sharpen a knife - Joe Calton

Good follow ups
Similar method (three step ) with a one dollar stone ? Cheap sharpening stone - does it work? - stefanwolf88
Extreme low grit sharpening : clay brick - Cliff Stamp


Thats almost all the secrets of sharpening freehand right there, easily get to shaving sharp with that info, and if you use a light touch, whittle hairs.

After you've sharpened a dozen times, watch the videos again, ... a lot of info you won't really appreciate until you try sharpening, don't watch too many videos before practicing

To keep from changing the outline/profile, just follow the curve , pivot/rotate the blade to keep the edge at right angle(90 degrees) to the abrasive and end with the tip on the abrasive, don't come off the stone

rabbit holes of good info/videos/links more links/talk about the same basics
The Seven Secrets of Sharpening
1363264-Best-correct-way-to-inexpensively-sharpen-a-pocket-knife

Would you describe how you sharpened in as much detail as you can?
what angle are you using?
is it the original edge angle?
how much time did you spend?
what did you do to remove the burr?
does the knife wobble a lot in your hand?
what kind of stone are you using? lubricant(water) or dry?
how much force (stone on bathroom/food scale do a few passes, how many pounds)?


It could be as simple as you did not remove the burr, so its still there just folded, not cutting paper well

or it could be instead of cutting off (removing) the burr you cut off the edge as well

cutting off the edge could happen in a few ways
you went 90 degrees and just cut into the stone
you're shaking and wobbling so much you accidentally cut into the stone
your stone has a high spot and you dug into it, the effect being same as trying to cut the stone, knife goes dull

or it could be you've raised a burr on both sides but edge is still flat/dull in the middle (I've done it lots)
if you look at your edge under a strong flashlight you will see a reflection


since you're starting, good practice is three 5 minute sharpenings,
this is one 5 minute sharpening
use a thin 1-4 inch paring knife (short thin sharpens faster ),
using scrubbing pass (knife on stone, back and forth)
your goal is to raise a burr you can feel and see, big burrs benefit beginners
scrub for a full minute, or for a 120 back and forth passes,
then check for burr, if there is burr, flip side
if no burr, scrub for another minute
then do the same time on other side
once you have a burr on both sides
try cutting some paper

now double the angle (or go for 35-40 degrees)
and do 2-4 lighter passes per side to cut off the burr (not scrubbing, just forward, edge leading )
try cutting paper again, if its not a lot better

do another 2-4 lighter lighter passes per side
try cutting paper again, if its not a lot better

back to original angle (or slightly higher angle)
and do 10-20 light passes per side
and try cutting paper again

knife very sharp now? it didn't work?
stop, take a break, for a few minutes


counting while you sharpen or singing a song
or set an egg timer/alarm
helps you not spend an hour trying to raise a burr


break is over, usin same short thin paring knife, repeat raising burr and cutting it off a second time, 5 more minutes
then take another break
then repeat this a third time, the last 5 minutes

doing three sharpenings of the same knife should help you figure it out
or at least figure out where you need help



my problems were so much shaking and wobbling at first (up down and left right),
then it was forgetting what angle i was sharpening
so do 50 passes on one angle, then change it, then change it again ...
and i wasn't using scrubbing passes so it was very very slow
then I was going very very light (under half a pound) of force
then i was using too much my arm got sore
then I was using lower angle each time so it was always taking a long time
then I didn't count or set an alarm so it would just stretch out into half hour or more

 

[Noobieknifeuser]

Don't worry about looks
Don't be afraid of practice, with 1-4 inch knife, one to three 5-10 minute sharpening sessions a day
The knife isn't damaged,
blunting is regular wear,
if you use the knife it will get scratched and it will blunt and you'll have to sharpen it
if you sharpen the knife the shape will change eventually
its not a big deal its just what happens and means you're actually using your knife
so just practice with the stone and you will improve
by the time you've saved up for a "work sharp"
you'll probably realize you don't need power equipment for sharpening
if you don't want to scratch up the blade when sharpening use some masking/painters tape

You seem to be making good progress, so take a break from videos, and practice a dozen times before viewing any more videos, after that you can read and view some of this info, it will start making more sense

Thanks for the advice!! I'll report my progress once I get my sharpening done!