Newbie Question: Calif laws on knives? help needed.

E

ep

Joined
Jul 26, 2000
Messages
7
Im new to all this, and after finishing my gun collection...I want to get into knives.
Knowing the stupid CA gun laws, Im sure CA has stupid knife laws too.
Ive gone over the legal sites, and tried to read as much but I still have some questions to patch some holes.
PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I MISUNDERSTOOD ANYTHING.
I understand that it is legal to carry a pocket knife as long as
a)it not exceed 2 and a half inches.
b)NOT a switchblade (autos)
c) should be carried openly(?) am I right here?

Here are my questions:
1) Can I own knives more than 2 and a half inches if i am NOT going to carry it around? Just keep it at home for collection purposes.
2) Can I buy them from out of state. (knives with blades exceeding the limit)
3) What about those big knives (swords and kukris..etc) Is there any laws I should know about them?

Please feel free to add to my unasked questions that I should have asked list! Im sure theres something I missed.

Any help to start me out will be appreciated greatly. Like guns, I don't want to ruin it for every law abiding knife owner by being ignorant.

Thanks
 
It is my understanding that Los Angeles has a 3" limit for personal carry. However, the state of California has no size limits; you can carry any folding knife you'd like, as far as the state is concerned. Autos of less than 2" blade length are also legal to carry.

Concealed fixed blade carry is illegal, regardless of size. Worn openly in a sheath is OK, but may get more police attention than you want.

Bring all the knives you want in from out of state. Bring a couple extra for me.

Same rules apply to the big stuff.


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Dave

Signature line needed. Apply within.
 
Wrong on a bunch of counts. Knife law must be more likely to breed rumor and myth than most sorts of law. I have a bunch of California knife law stuff at www.chaicutlery.com/knifelaw.html

Aside from going to school or the courthouse, the relevant state penal code sections in California are Section 12020. There are a bunch of "exotic and sneaky" pointed things whose possession is outright prohibited - like sword canes - and then there is a prohibition against the concealed carrying on one's person of a "dirk or dagger." A "dirk or dagger" doesn't have to be double edged and doesn't have to excede any length. It just has to be a sharp pointed thing. Other than a pocket knife, that is.

A folding knife in its folded condition is not a concealed dirk or dagger, no matter how long it is, no matter how ugly it is. A fixed blade knife, carried discretely, is a dirk or dagger, no matter how short or pretty it is. A mega-folder is street-legal in California. A big bowie knife is street-legal if you carry it openly, or carry it in your car. You can own a "dirk or dagger" but not carry it concealed on your person.

There are a couple or three CA appellate cases out there now that say the prosecutor has to prove you intended your fixed blade knife to be a weapon for it to be a concealed dirk or dagger, but if you end up appealing a criminal case, it means you already got arrested and lost at trial.

Remember that cities can have their own rules on open carry. Don't wear your big bowie knife in downtown Los Angeles. Your sword or your khukuri will also get you funny looks on the street. It's OK to do weed abatement with a khukuri, however, and to cook with a big chef's knife.

The two inch rule applies to switchblades. You can sell or carry a switchblade with a blade shorter than two inches. If you own a switchblade bigger than that, you may have it at home, and you may have it in the trunk of your car, but you may not carry it on your person or in the passenger section of your car (note that the big bowie knife under the driver's seat is legal, however), and we won't ask how you got it into the state in the first place.

California knife law has very little to do with California gun law, other than having certain exotic knives listed in between certain exotic guns in Section 12020, and if some restrictive statute on shiny sharp objects goes through it's as likely to come from a conservative Republican as from a liberal Democrat.

When blowguns are outlawed, only headhunters will have blowguns!


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
Thanks guys!
I'll check out that site you listed, James.
How about Balisongs? I am about to purchase those new Benchmade BM42AS. Is that considered a folding knife (pocket knife)? Or an auto?
Well...I'll read on first and then ask more questions later.
Thanks! Oh...BTW..Im from Glendale too!
laterz!
 
Balisongs are considered gravity knives and are banned by CA penal code 653k. They are legal to own in your home and the trunk of your car, nowhere else. Carrying one can be a felony if it's concealed, a misdemeanor if it's not. LA has some kind of 3 inch law but I'm not sure exactly what it says.

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Jason aka medusaoblongata
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"I have often laughed at the weaklings who call themselves kind because they have no claws"

- Zarathustra
 
The three inch rule in Los Angeles, Glendale, Burbank, and who-knows-where-else is that you may not openly carry a knife with a blade more than 3" long except for a lawful occupation or recreation or recognized religious practice. I think that translates as "It's OK if you don't look like a gang member, and if a cop asks you why you are carrying it you can give an answer other than 'protection' with a straight face."

Knife Law Conventional Wisdom: Never tell a cop you are carrying a knife "for protection."


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001


[This message has been edited by James Mattis (edited 07-27-2000).]
 
EP: there's been LOTS of talk on this subject here on BF. James Mattis and I are probably the two most ardent students of Calif knife law
smile.gif
.

My fairly modest personal knife page (under my gun page on California CCW) contains links back to long, involved Bladeforums CA knife law threads where James Mattis, myself and others thrash out details, quote penal code sections and have sundry other fun. See also: http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/blades.html - in other words, you click on the links and you go direct to huge older BF threads containing most of what you need to know. I've also got links to James' pages for more study.

My gun rights page specializing in Calif CCW is here: http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw

Hope these help...

Jim
 
ep; I would suggest that you use the 'search' button just below and to the right of the 'Post Reply' button. Searching for 'knife laws' will yield over 70 threads, some with very good material.

JKM's site is very good for questions about CA laws specifically.

Remember, just because the law entitles you to do something doesn't mean that every LEO is familiar with the law. Jim March had a friend at a Rennaisance type (Wiggin?)wedding, with swords and daggers openly displayed. The friend was arrested and put in jail for displaying his dagger (the other guests hastily hid their sharp instruments).
He was eventually found innocent, but actually stood trial, and incurred substantial legal fees.

Walt
 
Good point, Walt.

ep - Most cops don't know the law, so you might get harrassed for a legal knife. You could also be let go with an illegal one. Just because you're within the law doesn't mean you're out of trouble - go figure.

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Jason aka medusaoblongata
-----------------------
"I have often laughed at the weaklings who call themselves kind because they have no claws"

- Zarathustra
 
To clarify Walt's edition:

Wiggin? WIGGIN!?

AAAAAahahahaha!

Don't let a WICCAN hear you say that
biggrin.gif
.

Anyways. Ya, my roommate is WiCCan
wink.gif
and his actual, Calif-state-approved wedding was held outdoors at a local county park, with a "Renfaire costume theme" complete with sword arch that fit both the "theme" and religious overtones. That's not exactly my scene personally but then again, I've attended Catholic weddings too.

The cops came and grabbed the first two people they saw, which was me and another groomsman loading a car trunk in the lower parking lot with a big pile 'o swords. Terrence was already in the car, still in costume - which included an open-carry dagger on one ankle. He was wearing a coat that left very little "open carry real estate" on his belt and between his pouch, leather sex-toy flail (don't ask!), three-pack of small Hibben throwers and other crap, ran out of belt space for the dagger - which is his "Athame" (he IS Wiccan) necessary for carry at any such event.

First problem was that the responding cops didn't think double-edge was legal. It is, they cleared that up. Second problem was that they thought the dagger was "concealed" - it was NOT, it was fully in view from pommel to full length of sheath.

Penal Code 12020(24) says that "openly suspended from the waist is not concealed within the meaning of this law". Many cops think that means belt-area carry is the ONLY legal open carry. NOT SO. It's an "example" of open carry, not a sole possibility.

He got off because I explained that to his public defender. We also had wedding photos showing other park attendees in the background unconcerned over this weirdness going on, that seemed to be a major factor with the jury.

Finally, he should have sued the cops. Once they found out that the "double edge" charge was completely unfounded in law they switched to a "concealed carry bust". They should have paid heavily for a fabricated charge.

Both Terrence and I were also cited for infractions of the local county ordinance involving "dangerous weapons in the park" (the swords). But being open carry, there was no felony or misdemeanor attached to that, so while my three swords were confiscated (I got the reciept) I was cited and released. The DA immediately threw out the infractions and I recovered my swords.

The other wedding attendees saw what was happening and hustled the rest of an enormous pile of steel into somebody's van and drove it out of there
smile.gif
right past the cops hassling Terrence and I. The guy driving was white-knuckling and looked scared pissless but the cops didn't notice, the dorks.

Hey, PICS:
WEDDING1.JPG

ABOVE: Terrence is in the black trench coat, black beret, at the head of sword arch furthest from the camera. Note how little "exposed belt real estate" he had available, making ankle carry a necessity.

I'm in the left foreground in the black robe
smile.gif
.

WEDDING2.JPG

I'm in the cluster of groomsmen, furthest away from the camera (big redhead).

I couldn't make it, but I'm told the Wiccan High Priestess going on and on about freedom of religion was a hoot and a half. Why the DA took this clusterfu@& to trial is beyond me
smile.gif
.

Upshot: don't expect the cops to always know the law. Whatever happens, stay calm, try and get a supervisor, and if you know the penal codes well enough, you'll do OK.

Jim

[This message has been edited by Jim March (edited 07-28-2000).]
 
Seeing an unconventional religious rite going on outdoors in public, complete with swords, fills me with patriotic pride. I love this country!!! And I'm glad the jury saw it that way too, since some authority figures just didn't get it.
smile.gif


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
And notice the little child, so obviously terrified at all those awful weapons!
tongue.gif



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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001


[This message has been edited by James Mattis (edited 07-28-2000).]
 
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