Newbie questions regarding steel; and SR vs SY

BlackKnight86

BlackKnight86

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Oct 14, 2003
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Hi, guys!

I'm a newly busted Swamp Rat Virgin, with a recent trade for a Ratweiler and a Chopweiler. I love those two knives and I'm itching for some others. But I'm trying to decide what to go after first...I'm not so much a "collector" as a guy who likes to have good products that cover the entire spectrum of contingencies.

Here's my reasoning: I've got a decent range of Busses - that's what I started on. I never really knew much about the other Bussekin companies. I'm trying to start off with a good representative sample of their workhorses - especially in task areas that my Busses might not cover...I don't want too much redundancy of purpose, just to accumulate - at least not in the beginning. Someone mentioned to me that the 'weilers could be called the best all-arounders of the Swamp Rat line; that's why I went for them, first. Plus, they looked really cool!

My first question is, where do SR101 and SR77 shine best; and can either steel perform in that particular area or any other area better than INFI? What I mean is, let's say I'm looking for a chopper. For example, if I have a Battle Mistress already, what other chopper would I go for first? I read in one of the forums that SR77 is tougher than SR101; but that SR101 took a better edge and kept it longer. So, it would seem that for a chopper, I should keep my eye out for a DogFather rather than a Battle Rat, because of SR77's toughness...right? Or, would neither one be able to do anything better than the Battle Mistress, so perhaps I should focus on camp knives or smaller in both categories at first? For my small edc and fine chore knives, should I focus on SR101 knives because of its edge-holding abilities?

My other question involves the handle materials. I've read a lot about the grip and cushioning of the resiprine C handle material; and my Busses all have micarta or G10...so if I wanted to get a good example of a knife from either SR or SY, should I focus on the resiprine C handled knives? My reasoning is, if INFI is better across the board than either SR101 or SR77, I should focus on what's different when trying out either line, rather than getting essentially the same type of knife with a different steel - at least at first.

I hope I made sense there...I'm trying to gather as much info as possible; any advice you guys could give would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

BlackKnight86
 
I read in one of the forums that SR77 is tougher than SR101; but that SR101 took a better edge and kept it longer.
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Yup. Not sure if I'd notice or not. I do believe that SR101 is more stain resistant, altho still a carbon-steel style stainability. Given that I won't be smashing boulders into pieces with mine, I'd go SR101. Esp. b/c I just don't like the styling of the SY choils and spines.
 
SR101 is modified 52100 ball bearing steel, love it!
SR77 is modified S7 steel designed for shock, They use it in jackhammer bits...

Both have the Busse heat treatment.....

I would rate them...INFI, then SR101, and sr77....
Both sr101 and sr77 are more vulnerable to rust than INFI
 
Dennis in MA said:
Esp. b/c I just don't like the styling of the SY choils and spines.
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Oh, yeah, I totally agree with that! It's a shame, too...it really detracts from the lines, at least for me.

I did order the new one, though...the one they have in their store made of SR101 (5-inch blade, I think). I kinda like the mudder handles, and it was only $100...plus it was SR101. I think I'm going to put it to some real work when I get it!

Steelnut, did you see in the Scrapyard forum that some guys were discussing whether or not SR101 should be retired, based on the toughness of SR77? It was an interesting topic...I guess one of the guys on there had directly compared the two in two very similar knives. (Interesting thing was, the guy who did the comparison didn't agree...he really liked SR101; specifically mentioned that he could get it sharper than any other knife he had.) One of the guys on the forum was talking about how SR101 is the least tough of the three Bussekin steels...he said that's why SR differentially hardens their longer blades; and that's why he thought that Swamp Rat might want to switch to SR77, as well.

Are we talking absolute differences here? Based on what I've read, one would never discern any real differences in actual use, it seems...unless they performed an actual "in-laboratory" comparison all the way to knife destruction (which would not really prove anything practical, I'm thinking). Plus, with INFI available, would anyone chose anything other than Busses soley for performance reasons? (I understand aesthetics and price, of course).

I do like the SS4, though (INFI!)...I think I might try to track one of those down and trade out one of my Busses. As far as SR77 goes, I noticed that the Scrapper 6 and a couple other SYs had lines like the old Basics, instead of the little "horn" that you have on the newer models in the line. It's a shame that there aren't any of them in the larger blade size. I'd love to have a Scrapyard "Ratweiler equivalent" that looks like one of the older Busse Basics in SR77.

Now, as for Swamp Rat, it looks like I'll be hunting down some of the older ones, with Resiprine C handles...I've already got a good spread of Micarta with my Busses and my new 'Weilers. I do like the SR101 Bog Dog, too.

Just thinking out loud, here...thanks for the inputs!
 
I'm in a similar boat as you, just recently coming to these three companies and deciding which steels are the best choice in which knives. I've read pretty much the same things as you have about toughness vs edge retention, so here are my thoughts:

SR-101: Most likely plenty tough for me. I bought a second-hand Mini Uncle Mojo in SR101 and beat the hell out of it on a very hard birch tree I cut down around a year ago. This beating included trying to baton through a big knot in the tree, that also happened to be a place someone drove in a hardened masonry nail years ago, which was completely buried in the tree.

In other words, I was trying to baton my SR101 through a very very tough masonry nail, and I spent a good five minutes pounding on it, thinking the knife was jammed in a knot, before I pulled the blade out of the log.

There was definitely some chipping, but considering how hard I was wailing on the thing, it wasn't nearly as bad as I would expect. I sharpened it out by hand, and put a nice hair-shaving convex edge on the blade in the process.


SR-77: Supposedly less edge holding capability, and slightly less vulnerable to rust. Rust has rarely been an issue for me, even on 1095 blades, so I'm not too worried about that angle. Toughness is again better than SR-101, but I've found SR-101 to be more than adequate. I will probably be choosing SR-77 for serious beaters - a Son Of Dogfather is likely the first SR-77 blade I'll try to get, as it seems to be a popular choice in the midsize chopper category. I may be mistaken, but I believe SR-77 was first introduced in Swamp Rat's version of a crash axe, specifically for its ridiculous toughness.



154 CM - Stainless steel with great edge holding properties. I've heard it's tough to sharpen, but that's the tradeoff, right? I have read several claims that the Busse heat treat makes this 154 significantly tougher than common knives made from the same material. There are also some really cool blade shapes available in 154 - the Bird Dog and recently released Scrap Muk come to mind. Both have the Mudder handles in Res-C.


To summarize, my general aims for knives to look for go something like this... Res-C on choppers, and SR-77 is great, but SR-101 is probably tough enough. On smaller knives, Micarta handles are fine, and SR-101 and 154 CM both have good edge retention. For midsized knives like my Mini Uncle Mojo or the Scrapper 5, SR101 seems like a great choice. Since they won't be used for as much chopping, Micarta is fine, and Res-C is great for comfort.


A few of my "I'd like to have that" knives that fit these categories:

SY Muk
SY Dogfather
SY SOD
SR Camp Tramp
SR Hairy Carry
SR Howling Rat

And many, many more....
 
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Since you have a good selection of INFI, SR101 and SR77 will, in most people's estimation, be redundancies in those designs. The Res-C handled blades have a better weight vs. performance ration that may be appealing. The Battle Rat's SR101 is 'less tough' then the DF's but the steel itself is differentially tempered which will make up for much of the toughness difference. There is a noted edge retention advantage to the BR.

Some other knives you might look for are more specialty designs. A great example would be the Safari Skinner for a hunting knife or the Bird Dog for a fillet type knife. Another thing to look for would be mudder Res-C knives for a different grip feel that you might like more or less then some other styles. Swamp Rat also had a few D-2 bladed knives that have been noted by some to be the best D-2 knives, along with Dozer, ever.

Another great blade to look for would be the Crash Rat, not a knife but still pretty freaking awesome.
 
Oh yeah, you might look for a Rat Trap, currently the only folder from Busse-kin and the only s30v knife.
 
Just a note on the choppers- the DogFather is much more blade heavy, the BattleRat much livelier which for me makes it a better all-arounder. Speaking of all-arounders, don't forget to get a Camp Tramp- one of my all-time favorite knives.
 
Wow...great inputs, guys - thanks!

I took a look at the poll - fascinating! I can't wait to see the results. I'm kind of curious, though...a number of people mentioned the loss in shock absorbtion going from Res C to micarta/G10. I understand that; what I'm wondering is, is there an advantage to the full tang/micarta slab combo? Why did Swamp Rat switch? For that matter, why did Busse switch?

Also, those folks who have SR77 knives - how hard is it to sharpen? Is it that it's merely harder to sharpen and doesn't hold an edge as long as INFI or SR101; or that it cannot be made as absolutely sharp as INFI or SR101?
 
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I have found in my experience SR77 slightly easier to sharpen than INFI, and can be made just as sharp... but does not hold that edge for quite as long as INFI does (being a reaaalllly long time)
 
I realize everything is relative, but sharpening my dogfather (sr77) is easy and it holds an edge for a really long time. One thing to consider is that I really like using traditional khukuries and they require a sharpening from time to time...my dogfather does not. I sharpened it up when I first got it so it had a nice polished convex edge and have been using it without any real need to resharpen. The infi and sr101 may hold an edge longer, but sr77 still holds longer than anything else I have.
 
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