Newbie Seeks Advice

[Daniel Duane]

Here's the deal: I've been sharpening my kitchen knives, at home, with wetstones (400/1000/3000) for a couple years, mostly based on books I bought from Amazon and youtube videos.

I consistently get a wicked sharp blade (by my standards, probably not yours, but enough to cut S-curves in newspaper) on my one quality carbon-steel chef's knife (Japanese characters stamped into the blade, don't know the brand name in English; guy who sold it to me told me it was "blue steel," I don't know what that means). I LOVE this knife.

Can't ever get my Wusthoffs to a comparable sharpness. hardly use 'em anymore, for that reason.

Got a couple Shun VG10s a while back; they had terrific factory edges, but now I can't seem to bring them back up even to a decent sharpness. Not sure why, but ...

That's making me think it's time to revisit my whole approach. And that's where I'm looking for input on ...

grit: do I need more than I've got?
numbers of strokes: what do you guys consider adequate, per stone and per side?
pressure: hard? soft? feather soft? I tend to press pretty darn hard ...
bevel guides: own a couple, the kind that clip onto the spine, but don't use 'em. Tend to trust myself to find the right bevel, do take care in this area. Problematic?
stropping: never do it. getting the feeling I should.
sharpness test: love to hear good standard ones.
anything else: am I missing some key element of the picture? All I'm really doing is a few minutes per side on each stone.

 

[richard j]

welcome to the fourm. the ammount of strokes per side wont matter since downward pressure can be different from one person to another. you have to work up a burr before you can get the knife sharp. if you are not working up a burr, then you need to keep going until you do. use a sharpie to mark your blade edge so you can see what you are doing on the edge. after you get a burr, move on to the next finer grit. you might consider a strop. if you are open to suggestions, have you considered a powered system to sharpen with? i use the paper wheels which can get your knives shaving sharp in minutes. here is a link to them. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=578787

 

[2brothers]

Daniel, I have Wusthof, Henkels as well as some VG-10 Shuns and I used to always use stones and ceramic rods to keep them sharp.
On the Shuns though it would take quite a bit longer because the steel is harder.
Sharpening 7 or 8 knives in one session was taking it's toll on me until I found the paper wheels that Richard mentions above.
If you have a lot of knives and want a really good edge on them it would be something to think about.
They are time-saving and they work.

Take a look at them and give them some thought, it may be what you're looking for.

 

[Daniel Duane]

Thanks for this, guys. I'll definitely check out the wheels.

 

[stitchawl]

grit: do I need more than I've got?

No. There is absolutely no need to get any stone grit finer than what you have. That said, I would recommend a cheap V-sharpener of crock sticks (or if you really want a nice one, the Sharpmaker by Spyerco) for a once-a-week 10 second touch-up. (10 seconds only. You are just doing a touch-up, not a sharpening! V-crock sticks are quick and easy for this purpose.) After sharpening a knife to a desired edge, you need to maintain it. This is done by regular steeling, and once-a-week touch-ups with a crock stick. You could use your 3000 stone for this if you prefer, but keeping a V- crock stick on a kitchen shelf makes life simpler. But the key is to regularly maintain your edges! You do NOT need to sharpen them often. Once every few months should be enough for general home kitchen duty.

numbers of strokes: what do you guys consider adequate, per stone and per side?

You really can't use number of strokes as a criterion. Stay on one side until you raise a burr on the opposite side, then turn the blade over and repeat the process. When you have a 'good' burr along the entire edge, move to the next finer grit. Personally, for the first sharpening (only) I repeat this process twice on the first stone.

pressure: hard? soft? feather soft? I tend to press pretty darn hard

And here is where you may be working against yourself. You do NOT need a lot of pressure. Just the weight of the knife and a little bit more. Let the grit do the work, not the pressure into the stone. If you're pressing hard, you're doing it wrong.

bevel guides: own a couple, the kind that clip onto the spine, but don't use 'em. Tend to trust myself to find the right bevel, do take care in this area. Problematic?

As long as you can maintain the same angle through out the process, you don't need a guide. For sharpening, I like guides. For touch-ups I don't use them.

stropping: never do it. getting the feeling I should.

For kitchen knives, there is no need to strop. There is a need for regular steeling with either a butcher's steel or a borocilicate glass rod. do this before every use of the knife. This will maintain your edges and make the need for sharpening on stones much less frequent. (For the borocilicate glass rod, use the edge of a Pyrex loaf pan. Pyrex IS borocilicate glass!) Stropping won't hurt anything, but with the exception of filleting knives, you don't need that sort of edge in the kitchen. I do strop my pocket knives and bushcraft knives, but not my kitchen tools.

am I missing some key element of the picture?

Unless you're a professional chef, you are using one or two knives for a few minutes every day to make your family meals. You should be able to go a few months of touch-ups before ever needing to re-sharpen on a stone. You already have just about everything you need to keep your knives in good condition. Remember, if your goal is to keep your kitchen knives sharp, you won't be sharpening more than 3-4 times a year, and unless you love to sharpen all your knives every day, you don't need to buy anything else. This does not mean that it's not fun to buy everything else...

Stitchawl

 

[electric]

Welcome Friend,

Just to let you know carbon steel takes an edge really easy, but you have to hold the angle for both sides and do the burr removal thing. I think you have that down. The other knives are probably a harder steel and don't take an edge as fast.

I would give those guides a try if I were you and give it a little time. You just might get the free hand down.

On the other hand if you just want a sharp knife and arn't interested in going into a Trance while free handing Get the paper wheels and they will be sharp in no time.

Richard is the Paper wheel king here if you call him he'll even tell you how to do it ! By the way they work great.

Just my 2cents,
Electric

 

[dsmegst]

With the VG-10 stainless steel in your Shuns, I'm thinking they're burring more than your carbon steel knives. Although I don't own a comparable carbon steel knife, my guess is that using the same amount of pressure with VG-10 is creating a burr. Try less pressure and see if that helps.

Also, are you getting the same primary edge angle as from the factory? They should be 8 degrees per side so 16 degrees inclusive. This is VERY thin, even among the forumites around here. I have a hard time going less than 10 degrees per side so I know my Shuns have a slightly thicker edge than when new. Even so, they're still amazing slicers.

I also happen to use paper wheels but what you have should be fine. If you can get other knives that sharp, there's no reason you can't get it with VG-10. It's just a matter of adjusting your techniques a bit. Good luck.