Newbie seeks Kershaw wisdom...

Joined
May 10, 2008
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Hey guys, just discovered this community yesterday while hunting for a good first folder and have spent rather a few hours looking around... instead of doing my college finals! I haven't owned any knives since my pocketknife back when I was a Boy Scout and am interested in buying a nice folder that would serve well for EDC but still be capable in a survival or self-defense situation, should they arise. As far as I can tell, Kershaw seems to be a totally amazing brand for fulfilling all those requirements--as well as having a really awesome forum community. ;) I'm simply amazed that Thomas actually takes the trouble to post here so regularly, and has such a great sense of humor!

I've done a fair amount of looking around on my own (no need to make you guys do all the work;)) but still am having some trouble finding the exact knife I'm looking for. My biggest problem is that I'm totally enthralled by the ZT line, especially the 0200, but they're simply too massive for my small hands! I've noticed from the pictures around that the 0200 seems to fit really nicely in the hands of super-mutants like offsetlover and nygiantsfan that measure 8+ inches from wrist to middle fingertip, but as a mere mortal whose hand is about 6.35 inches by the same measurements, I doubt I'd be able to handle such as "tank" of a knife as the 0200. :( Similar size seems to put the beautiful Tyrade out of my reach as well.

I have a few questions about the legality of SpeedSafe in NYC, and following the Don's advice I've started a thread about it here, if anybody has some input that would be really helpful as I know almost nothing about how SpeedSafe works.

Back on topic:

Usually when I've seen people asking for help on knives folks have asked them about what appeals to them aesthetically, so I'll provide a bit of background on that to help you out. Although I'm continually amused by Cold Steel's hyperbolic advertising (Cuts like a lightsaber! Full-length tang carved from the wood of the True Cross! Blade covered with adonized Unobtainium mined from the center of the Earth!) I have to admit that I find their look occasionally appealing. If I happened to have a knife materialize out of the air in front of me, I think I'd want it to be their beautiful Black Sable, I'm an amateur fencer and the pistol grip looks really nice to me, and the blade's curve is just amazing. I've always had a thing for recurved, upswept blades like that, and seeing one on a folder takes my breath away. Of course even if you go bargain-hunting that knife seems to cost about $300, which is way out of my poor-college-student price range. :(

Speaking of price, I'm looking to spend around $60 to $90 preferably, but if a knife is going to be a great value and last me for years I'd spend maybe $150ish max on it. (By the way, it seems that Spark and everybody else on the internet are being pretty dramatically undersold by www.cheaperthandirt.com, which I haven't heard mentioned here) It's annoying because a ZT 0200 seems perfect for my needs and is a steal for the price, but... if you'll remember in Pulp Fiction where Jules and Vincent are miraculously not killed by that kid blazing away with the huge revolver, and Jules says "Did you see that gun? It was bigger than him!" That's what people would probably say about me with that knife. I mean, I'm like 5'2" and 120 lbs., that thing practically *is* bigger than me :D

For another example of a probably-too-big knife that I like, the Cold Steel Recon 1 seems to be extremely solid and dependable, as well as looking pretty sweet--and from what I've seen of the video in Funditor's review it looks really fun to flip open and closed, even with gloves. Since I usually wear a black leather jacket and matching gloves when I go out in the winter, it'd be awful convenient to have a knife that flips open that easily... and I'm not gonna lie... it looks really fun to just sit around flicking it open and shut all day! :D

But speaking of flippers, I'm a little intrigued by but confused about the R.A.M. First off... what does R.A.M. stand for? Moreover, I've heard the RAM referred to as a "flipper" several times, and people seem to indicate that flipping it open is really fun, like in the "ram manipulations" video. What's the difference between the RAM's opening method and SpeedSafe? Would a RAM be legal in NYC? I can't tell if the RAM would be the answer to my need for a knife combining awesomeness and functionality, but especially the ones with composite blades are absolutely gorgeous. I vote for Gavin's design, by the way. ;)

I get the vague impression that a RAM is a little smaller than a ZT 0200, but by how much? I wish the Kershaw site's measurements were working, but the whole site seems to be a little sparing with the details at the moment ;). I've also seen that a lot of other sites have untrustworthy info on Kershaws, for example many of them erroneously list the ZT 0200's blade length at 4.25" when it's apparently more like 3.875", so I'd rather get the specs from you guys.

So if the ZT 0200 is too big, the RAM might be illegal in NYC or too big, where do I go from here? Leeks are very nice but a little too pointy for my taste, so next I'm looking at... Shallots?. I do like the Shallot's design a lot, especially the black ones with combo blades, but I'm a *bit* unsure how much abuse they can take, as they seem to emphasize form over function. I don't plan on abusing my knife, and I know that Kershaw's CS is second-to-none, but since it's my first folder I'd rather not even have one that I'll hurt on accident if I try to cut through a 1" branch or maybe use a larger branch as a baton to drive it through another piece of wood to split it. Reading the Recon 1 review really had an impact on my desire to "be prepared" as I used to in the Scouts and I'd like a knife that would hold up the same under those pressures. Having no practical knowledge of how a Shallot handles though, I'm not sure how it'd do. I don't know much about similar Kershaws to the Shallot in size, like maybe the Cyclone, Avalanche, Black Vapor, or Groove, if any of those are even around the size I think they are. :o

So I have a fair amount of theoretical and abstract knowledge about these knives, but looking at YouTube videos can only get you so far. So far it's seeming like the Recon 1 fulfills a lot of my needs, but I like Kershaw as a brand waaay better than Cold Steel, especially since I know their CS will have my back if anything goes awry. Flipping the Recon open and closed for hours seems fun, but if doing so messes it up and CS's CS... doesn't exist... I'll be left with a $55 paperweight. Also, I don't know how the Recon stacks up heftwise to the others I'm classifying as "probably too heavy" like the Tyrade. It weighs in at 5.5oz compared to 7.7oz for the ZT 0200 and 4.2oz for the Shallot, but that doesn't tell me too much without practical experience.

I think seeing some pictures for size comparison on this stuff might help me out a lot, especially in-hand or with something like a quarter for scale, and while there are a lot of pics here already many of the knives aren't labeled and I'm not quite good enough yet to identify all of them by sight. If anybody could whip me up a pic or two with a ZT 0200, a RAM, a Shallot, any other shallotesque knives like the Black Vapor II, and a Recon 1 if you happen to have it, that would be really really helpful.

Thanks for reading my enormous block of text, can you tell that I've been spending a zillion hours on the forums? The addiction has begun... :D unfortunately given my current resources (literally $0 in the bank account and not starting full-time work for another week) I can't get addicted to buying a zillion Kershaws...yet... so I'll have to make do with one that will last me for a long time.

Again, thanks for reading and I look forward to your sage advice!
 
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Welcome to the forum. You'll get a lot of advice from some very knowledgeable people here.

You've posed a lot of questions. I'd suggest first deciding how far into the legal grey area you wish to venture regarding NY knife laws. There's been a lot of discussion on this subject here, and you'll find there appears to be no correct answer, depending upon who you ask. Pose your NY law question there, and then decide for yourself whether you want SpeedSafe or not. Kershaw has always said that the SpeedSafe models are OK there, but from my readings in the thread I linked, it really depends upon your particulars when confronted by a LEO. I'm sure Thomas will help you with advice in this area, too. Once you decide whether you want to go the SpeedSafe route or not, the rest will fall into place. Kershaw offers fantastic models with and without SpeedSafe, and some that while equipped with it, give you the option to turn it off. One of my favorites isn't SpeedSafe equipped, and it still opens as fast if not faster than some SpeedSafe equipped models.

Again, welcome!
 
I get the vague impression that a RAM is a little smaller than a ZT 0200, but by how much? I wish the Kershaw site's measurements were working, but the whole site seems to be a little sparing with the details at the moment ;). I've also seen that a lot of other sites have untrustworthy info on Kershaws, for example many of them erroneously list the ZT 0200's blade length at 4.25" when it's apparently more like 3.875", so I'd rather get the specs from you guys.

I think seeing some pictures for size comparison on this stuff might help me out a lot, especially in-hand or with something like a quarter for scale, and while there are a lot of pics here already many of the knives aren't labeled and I'm not quite good enough yet to identify all of them by sight. If anybody could whip me up a pic or two with a ZT 0200, a RAM, a Shallot, any other shallotesque knives like the Black Vapor II, and a Recon 1 if you happen to have it, that would be really really helpful.
Again, thanks for reading and I look forward to your sage advice!

The RAM is quite a bit smaller than the ZT0200. As far as pics, try these threads, and welcome to the forums! Great first post!

Knives in hand: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=553018

Check the two "sticky" threads for more
 
Thanks for the prompt responses and warm welcomes, guys! I'm honored that such prominent members of The Family took their valuable time to read my humble submission to their forums. :D

I appreciate your advice on the legal gray areas, Don, and started another thread here specifically in order to discuss that issue. Anybody who wants to reply to my original post on that subject can kindly do so there as to avoid overly muddling up this thread.

The RAM is quite a bit smaller than the ZT0200. As far as pics, try these threads, and welcome to the forums! Great first post!

Knives in hand: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=553018

Check the two "sticky" threads for more
Thanks for the help with that, NY. :) Just to clarify it a little more, could you post/link me to a reliable source for the exact measurements for the RAM?

I also appreciate the photo links--It was definitely in looking over the amazing glamor shots of all those knives that I really decided Kershaw was the brand for me, they're really works of art as well as superb tools. However, I went looking through them again and I've been unable to find many Shallot pictures, especially comparisons of Shallots with the larger-ish knives I'm also interested in.

Also, I'm looking mainly for a black Shallot to buy, but I hear people recently talking about some "new black shallots" on the groomsmen gifts page. Are the new ones different from what I assume is the standard black shallot? Composite edges, maybe? That would be sooo coool...

Since (with the info I've researched so far) it seems like the Shallot is my best compromise between usefulness, awesomeness, and size I'd like to try and find/request some pictures specifically putting it side-by-side with, say, a RAM (since it's also in the running for my first choice) and some other similarly-sized knives to the Shallot to find which would work best.

Everybody here seems to like taking pictures of their so-fine blades, could any of you be persuaded to put together such a comparison shot on my behalf? :):):)
 
you have a ton of questions that others would be able to answer better.

Very few knives are nyc legal if you stick to all the rules.
A spyderco would be a good one to try even though it is not a kershaw. I would get one that needs you to actually pull the blade open to open it and doesn't even come close to an AO.

If you want a kershaw then the shallot it coming out soon in black but not yet. I would just hate to lose a knife to confiscation that cost me more than 10$.

If you have time to pull the blade and deploy it and get close enough then you have time to run away or start kicking nuts or eye gouging. Read up on knives for self defense before you go that route. Get something small and quickly deployable for your first knife as you will use it more if you can pull it out in public and use it discretely.

edit: for what it is worth, I have a rainbow leek as the AO is not an issue where I live.
 
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Here's the specs on the RAM;






Description
KS1910: R.A.M. - Plain Edge
Kershaw® Knives

Flip Out Over Kershaw’s “Flipper” Knives.

Blade Magazine honored the R.A.M. as 2007’s Most Innovative American Design. The R.A.M. opens with the ambidextrous Flipper system or the built-in thumb knobs. The knife offers Sandvik 13C26 stainless-steel blades and an anodized aluminum handle with G-10 overlays for a secure grip. It also features the patent-pending Hawk Lock that is both incredibly secure and easy to operate. A textured G-10 handle with Trac-Tec inserts offers a grip that’s always secure.

Comes with a removable pocket clip that can be reversed for tip-up or tip-down carry—so they’ll be ready for your next adventure.

Specifications
Steel......Sandvik 13C26 stainless-steel
Handle...6061-T6 anodized black aluminum with textured black G-10 overlay
Lock.......Hawk-Lock®
Blade......3-1/8 in. (7.9 cm)
Closed...4-3/8 in. (11.1 cm)
Weight...3.8 oz.
Blade Magazine recognized the R.A.M. as the 2007 Most Innovative American Made Knife of the Year.
 
Zindaras, it looks like you received some good answers in the legal department from your other thread. Bottom line is: In NYC, don't screw up and give any LEO a reason to search you, keep the knife in your pocket, not clipped to it, and be aware of your surroundings when you bring it out.

As for the all black Shallot, they are to be released real soon, if not already out. I personally haven't looked yet. That's why they are referred to as "new".

Here's a quick pic for some respective size comparisons, top to bottom:

ZT0200
JYD II CB (swapped CB for SG2 blade from a JYD II Titanium SG2)
Aluminum handled Speed Bump
ENER-G II
Shallot
SG2 Blur
Mini Cyclone

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Hope this helps...
 

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Awesome feedback guys, I think I've pretty much made my choice. The comparison pic was just what I was looking for, Don, and I very much appreciate it. Especially looking at its "dead sexy" blade in comparison with the others, the Shallot seems to be just the knife for me.

I have a few more questions regarding the Shallot specifically, as Tom on the other thread gave me the definitive answers on the legality of SpeedSafe in the other thread, but I'm still unsure how exactly the SpeedSafe could be disabled on my Shallot, and how possible it might be to turn it back on for weekends, what kind of tools I might need, that sort of thing.

Also thanks Cutter for the RAM specs, especially reading the review there made me decide that the Shallot is all the knife I need and no more. :D

Thanks for the help, everybody! :) Can't wait to get my hands on that black Shallot...
 
But speaking of flippers, I'm a little intrigued by but confused about the R.A.M. First off... what does R.A.M. stand for? Moreover, I've heard the RAM referred to as a "flipper" several times, and people seem to indicate that flipping it open is really fun, like in the "ram manipulations" video. What's the difference between the RAM's opening method and SpeedSafe? Would a RAM be legal in NYC? I can't tell if the RAM would be the answer to my need for a knife combining awesomeness and functionality, but especially the ones with composite blades are absolutely gorgeous. I vote for Gavin's design, by the way.

Hey Zindaras,

Wow! first off let me say that i am glad you liked my manipulations thread, and i am working on another video with some aerials thrown in for some fun. Second, let me assure you that the R.A.M. (which stands for restraint articulated mechanism --the means by which the knife opens and locks) is a true delight of a knife. it opens faster than many of the speedsafe knives of similar blade size and is even easier to open than it looks in the videos. it is small in the hand, but the choil makes it easy to get a good grip for heavier duty tasks while the blade shape makes it easy to use in more detail oriented projects. all in all its a winner and i plan on purchasing every plain edged variation released.....i hope thomas doesn't go and authorize 100 variations or ill be broke :)
 
That's awesome, Slade! I was quite impressed by your first video and got a bit disappointed when I saw there weren't any others up yet, but I guess you oughta get the practice in before trying anything fancier, don't want to get 'bitten' too often, right? :D I totally agree about the variations on the composite edges, they're really striking! That was one of the things that impressed me most to hear about Kershaw, actually. I saw a really interesting TV show a few months ago where they attempted to forge a katana-style sword using modern technology that would be superior to a traditionally forged katana, using all sorts of hyper-great modern steel and stuff. As it turned out, the traditionally-made one proved very superior in all the tests of sharpness, shock-absorption, and flexibility, largely because it had the signature katana features of a softer core of steel with a super-hard edge, just like the composite Kershaw knives.

In the show the traditional katana cut a bullet clean in half (it was held in a vise and shot with an automated pistol) with almost no visible damage to the blade. By comparison the "modern" katana, which was forged from a single piece of hard steel, did much worse: it still cut the bullet, but it wasn't into two clean halves, and the damage to the blade was much more obvious. Moreover in tests where the blades were each shot on their flat sides by the same pistol the traditional blade had much less vibration and damage as a result, it showed how much more flexible and resilient the two-steel composite approach is. The traditional sword also did better in the sharpness test when cutting rolled tatami mats, but that was mostly because the traditional swordsmiths spend about a week polishing the blade after it's done and the show's host (who was kind of a lame guy for such a cool show) did his polishing in a few hours before the test deadline. Seems like he should have put the effort in to make it a better test, but it's his show, I guess, and if he wants to make himself look bad that's his prerogative :p

I'll almost certainly be buying a Shallot for my EDC as my first knife, but if I ever have a bunch of extra dollars lying around I know that composite RAM is going to be calling to me... I agree that it'll be hard work to decide between all the amazing designs they're sure to release! If you happen to have a Shallot, Slade, could you take a picture of one next to your RAM? I'd like to see what the potential first two in my collection would look like together :D :D :D

Edit: Aww, jeez. I didn't just find out anything and it isn't my favorite thing in the world.

Zindaras, please note that the Shallot does not come with a SpeedSafe "on/off" switch. The Cyclones, both full-sized and mini, have the SpeedSafe switch. The Shallot's SpeedSafe is always on, unless you take the knife apart and remove the torsion bar. Then it functions as a manual flipper.

Thanks Don, I figured it was something like that. I hope it won't be too difficult to remove, but I don't expect to have any problem just using my Shallot manually, even if it turns out removing the bar is permanent for some reason. Like Steve Buscemi says in Fargo, "I just want to be in full compliance." ;)
 
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I believe that the composites are actually edge up to the weld is solid steel and the spine to the weld is another. the laminate steels like SG2 are made like you described using a core of super hard steel and a softer outer layer. not sure i got that right, but one of the others will be along to correct me should i be mistaken.

on the shallot pics, gimme a few weeks, kershaw and my wallet have too much of a one-sided relationship, i believe others here have both and could upload some comparison shots.

as far as others videos are concerned, ive seen some on youtube but not from other forumites. we should help get the word out and get more vids up. sadly enough i always need something to fidget with when watching tv and the ram was my EDF (every day fidget) for a few weeks. ill let others know in the manipulations thread when im close to completing material for a new video.

thanks,

Matt
 
I mean, I'm like 5'2" and 120 lbs., that thing practically *is* bigger than me :D

And this is where I hand the title of " Kershaw Shrimp of The Year" award
off to Zindaras. ;)
Congratulations!! :thumbup:
:D

RAM? Shallot? RAM? Shallot?
I like both, but the RAM just feels better in my hand and it is just plain
fun to flick, twirl, somersault, pole vault,javallin....you get the idea. ;)

Welcome to the forums. :thumbup:

SV
 
And this is where I hand the title of " Kershaw Shrimp of The Year" award
off to Zindaras. ;)
Congratulations!! :thumbup:
:D

RAM? Shallot? RAM? Shallot?
I like both, but the RAM just feels better in my hand and it is just plain
fun to flick, twirl, somersault, pole vault,javallin....you get the idea. ;)

Welcome to the forums. :thumbup:

SV

I'm keepin this one...there's some great sig material there! :D
 
And this is where I hand the title of " Kershaw Shrimp of The Year" award
off to Zindaras. ;)
Congratulations!! :thumbup:
:D

RAM? Shallot? RAM? Shallot?
I like both, but the RAM just feels better in my hand and it is just plain
fun to flick, twirl, somersault, pole vault,javallin....you get the idea. ;)

Welcome to the forums. :thumbup:

SV

do you have a video of the pole vault technique? or perhaps the javelin?

wait....that came out wrong
 
wait, there is a sanctioning body for Ram pole vaulting? gotta find me some spandex and a video camera...
 
And this is where I hand the title of " Kershaw Shrimp of The Year" award off to Zindaras. ;) Congratulations!! :thumbup: :D

W00t, I've only been a member for two days and I'm already winning awards! :D ;)

Also, in response to Slade, the process I was talking about is apparently known as the makuri-gitae method of katana forging, as seen here. Mostly I was bringing it up not because I thought Kershaw was doing the exact same thing with the composite blades, but just because the practice of combining soft and hard steels in a single blade is a good idea in general. It's pretty cool though how some of the composite edges are aesthetically similar to a katana's hamon, though, even if they arise from different sources.

Muahahahahaha!

Uh oh, the Don must be getting old, he started laughing at his own jokes! ;):p

(Oh wait, I forgot. When the Don laughs, we all laugh too.) *crony-like laughter* "ha ha ha ha ha! HA ha ha ha ha!"

Heeey... aww man, if I want to use it as a sig I'll have to pay the $10 to get a paid account, and that puts me $10 farther from my Shallot! Boo! :grumpy::D
 
ah. i figured something as much. however after reviewing your link i do believe that is exactly like the process used in making the SG2 laminate blades. i have both variations available and they are truly wonderful works of art.
 
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