Next stone(s) to add to the group ?

J

J Thomas

Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Messages
67
I currently have the following:

DMT: XX Coarse, X Coarse

Shapton Glass (SG): 120, 220, 500, 2000 and 16,000

Atoma: 400


I was looking at the micron comparison between a DMT Coarse (Blue) and a SG 320 ... DMT Coarse - 45 micron / SG 320 - 45.94 micron and wondered which one I would add to the group when time and budget allows.

I've been living in the lower grits and wondered if you were to get a new stone or two, would you build up your current collection ... or, would you want to strike off and try another stone like a 400 or 600 Naniwa Professional Stones (New Chosera)?

Potential Options:

a) DMT Coarse and Fine

b) Shapton Glass 320 and a higher 2000 grit like the 4000

c) Atoma 140 and 600 or

d) None of the above, and try out some other brand's lower grits ... Naniwa, or pick and choose between the above?

I appreciate your insights and opinions.
 
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What are you sharpening?


In general,

I think the SG4k would be a good addition, you seem covered in the low end and there is little need for the 320 between the 220 and 500.

The 4k is a very nice stone that produces a clean polish and very sharp edge. It's very nice on quality kitchen knives or anything that needs a highly refined edge. Its smoother than I personally like for pocket knives though. The SG8k could be considered too, I like to use it as a combo with the SG500 which produces a very nice toothy polished edge.
 
Thanks Jason for the response.

Answer to your question, I'm basically sharpening a lot of cheaper kitchen knives with the occasional high quality Japanese kitchen knife and a bunch of hunting knives, pocketknives.

The SG low stones were interesting in that I first purchased the 220 and really liked it, then the 120 and did not like it (too hard). So, I am now like "might as well get the 320 and have experience with all the lower grit Shaptons."

DMT's intrigue me in that they were my first experience with sharpening stones and even to this day I seem to do better with them than I do with the Shapton Glass. I don't know if it is because my technique is different (DMT - edge leading, SG - edge trailing) or what, it just seems I sharpen better on the diamonds. A lot of times, I will start with the DMT X-Coarse and then smooth out the work it did with the SG 500.

This is my hobby and with that there is always that part of "what am I missing, or, what can I do better?" The Atoma 400 I have for lapping has been used a few times for sharpening and in my experience I like the DMT feedback better than the Atoma's. Always wanted to see an Atoma 140 though.

Maybe a better question would be, "seeing what I all ready have, how would you more complete the kit with the addition of a 2-3 stones?"

Thank You.
 
I'd never tell anyone not to get a dMt coarse I love it . If it were me I'd bridge that gap between 2 and 16k in the shaptons and get a dmt coarse. IMHO the 4k glass stone is where it starts to polish . It's not a clear mirror , but with the other stones you have it would really bridge the gap on the knives you decided to take to 16k.
 
Megabassx7 said:
I'd recommend a naniwa pro 1000 just because I absolutely love it and how it feels
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Thing about that is its an oddball to OPS shaptons. Not really sure where the 1k would fit into it but in my expierence shaptons usually leave a coarser scratch pattern st the same grit than other stones .
 
For softer/cheaper knives I use the Atoma 140, SG500 and SG2k. Follow with a little stropping and you have a very good edge. I also like the Naniwa 2k Green Brick for finishing softer stainless, the soft nature of the GB helps clean off the burr that can be problematic on softer stainless. Used best in combo with the Naniwa Pro 400, IMO.

The Atoma 140 is THE diamond plate, from lapping to sharpening it is the top dog. You would like it.

The Coarse DMT is a must have too, IMO. It's a great stone for sharpening high alloy steels such as S30V or better. A nice toothy edge that's ideal for EDC knives.
 
Jason B. said:
For softer/cheaper knives I use the Atoma 140, SG500 and SG2k. Follow with a little stropping and you have a very good edge. I also like the Naniwa 2k Green Brick for finishing softer stainless, the soft nature of the GB helps clean off the burr that can be problematic on softer stainless. Used best in combo with the Naniwa Pro 400, IMO.

The Atoma 140 is THE diamond plate, from lapping to sharpening it is the top dog. You would like it.

The Coarse DMT is a must have too, IMO. It's a great stone for sharpening high alloy steels such as S30V or better. A nice toothy edge that's ideal for EDC knives.
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I love the green brick of joy as well. If it didn't come with a grit rating you'd really be surprised it was only 2k . Certain steels it polishes better than a 4k king. Gives a very unique edge . Somebody somewhere described a green brick edge saying the edge felt like a praying mantis legs , I agree . Very versatile stone . Let it load and it polishes way above its grit ,fun stone to play with . My green brick found a new purpose sharpening older carbon gardening tools .
 
The Nubatama 150/1200 combo stone would fill a couple of holes in your progression. Two darn good stones a very reasonable price.
 
mycough said:
Are you saying you only use edge trailing on all of your shaptons?
Russ
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Once I get bevel apex ed yes , I only use edge trailing strokes. I'm sure it's personal preference but i get better edges this way .

Now the way I sharpen is I like thin bevels so I'll grind or thin my bevel a bit . Sometimes I'll apex on the coarsest stone sometimes I don't depends on how fine I'm going to take the edge . If I want a really high grit High polish I stop just short of the apex on my coarsest stone and well lets use shaptons for this. I'll stop just shy of the actual edge on my 320 then move to the 1k and apex once it's apexed I do edge trailing strokes .

It's easier and quicker for me to do that. No right or wrong way I just have my way .

Another method I do is say my bevel is 15 degrees . On my coarse stone I sharpen or grind at 15 degrees . However when I jump to say the 1k stone I like to raise my angle just a few degrees say 17 or 18 and only do edge trailing strokes . I get a stronger edge by doing this it's basically the Murray carter way without putting the entire knife on the stone .

I've found you get much sharper edges with edge trailing vs edge leading . Especially on softer water stones where the edge can dig into the stone edge trailing is a must IMHO. On any stone stropping gives me the best edge possible .
 
Spartan00 said:
Once I get bevel apex ed yes , I only use edge trailing strokes. I'm sure it's personal preference but i get better edges this way .

Now the way I sharpen is I like thin bevels so I'll grind or thin my bevel a bit . Sometimes I'll apex on the coarsest stone sometimes I don't depends on how fine I'm going to take the edge . If I want a really high grit High polish I stop just short of the apex on my coarsest stone and well lets use shaptons for this. I'll stop just shy of the actual edge on my 320 then move to the 1k and apex once it's apexed I do edge trailing strokes .

It's easier and quicker for me to do that. No right or wrong way I just have my way .

Another method I do is say my bevel is 15 degrees . On my coarse stone I sharpen or grind at 15 degrees . However when I jump to say the 1k stone I like to raise my angle just a few degrees say 17 or 18 and only do edge trailing strokes . I get a stronger edge by doing this it's basically the Murray carter way without putting the entire knife on the stone .

I've found you get much sharper edges with edge trailing vs edge leading . Especially on softer water stones where the edge can dig into the stone edge trailing is a must IMHO. On any stone stropping gives me the best edge possible .
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I was asking the OP. I sharpen all my high end kitchen knives on shapton and use edge leading on ALL my stones. I may trail to aid in de burring but that is it. I have been a kitchen professional for almost 40 years and use the back and forth motion on even low grit water stones. You have to exercise caution not to dig in. Have you seen all the shapton videos or the jki videos? Or Jason's perhaps?
Russ
 
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mycough said:
I was asking the OP. I sharpen all my high end kitchen knives on shapton and use edge leading on ALL my stones. I may trail to aid in de burring but that is it. I have been a kitchen professional for almost 40 years and use the back and forth motion on even low grit water stones. You have to exercise caution not to dig in. Have you seen all the shapton videos or the jki videos? Or Jason's perhaps?
Russ
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Yes I've seen the videos . I'm simply stating what works for me and what I've found makes my sharpening better and easier . As I said no right or wrong way to do it .
 
To OP, shapton 4K or atoma 1200 grit would be nice additions, also read and watch videos, it may tighten up your learning curve.
Russ
 
mycough said:
Are you saying you only use edge trailing on all of your shaptons?
Russ
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Yes, I have watched the videos you mentioned and at this time I am unable to duplicate the results they show with the back and forth motion. For now, I only use edge trailing strokes on the Shapton Glass stones and only edge leading strokes on the DMT Diasharp stones. I'll have to experiment with edge leading strokes on my Shapton Glass stones, back to the sink I go.

When you use the back and forth to create your edge do you use the same amount of force on the blade going forward (edge leading) and back (edge trailing)?

mycough, thanks for the suggestion with the SG 4000 and Atoma 1200 ... someday.

Thanks.
 
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Spartan00 said:
Now the way I sharpen is I like thin bevels so I'll grind or thin my bevel a bit . Sometimes I'll apex on the coarsest stone sometimes I don't depends on how fine I'm going to take the edge . If I want a really high grit High polish I stop just short of the apex on my coarsest stone and well lets use shaptons for this. I'll stop just shy of the actual edge on my 320 then move to the 1k and apex once it's apexed I do edge trailing strokes .

.
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Hi Spartan00, I appreciate your input with my inquiry. You mention working on your coarsest stone. What coarse stones do you like? I'ts interesting to me how when I first took the big step in getting some stones this past Christmas I was mostly thinking about the "future higher grits" I would acquire over time. Now, I seem to mostly be thinking of how many coarser stones I can get/try out. Funny how things change with time, experience and a little bit of "aha moments". Thanks.
 
pjwoolw said:
The Nubatama 150/1200 combo stone would fill a couple of holes in your progression. Two darn good stones a very reasonable price.
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pjwoolw ... "Nubatama, Nubatama, Nubatama" ... yep, someday, somehow I'll have to check this brand out, too many good things written about them online. Have you personally had much experience with this brand of stones? If so, how would you describe them to the DMT's and Shapton Glass Stones? Or if you have not had that type of interaction with the stones mentioned, why do you like the Nubatama stones? My wife gets a kick whenever I mention that brand, she said I have to get one someday just because it's fun to say. =)

Thanks for the input and suggestion.
 
I like diamonds and the shapton pro 320 . Have a Beaton 220 and it cuts fast, but it dishes fast as well I got my money's worth out of the beston for sure but I won't be replacing it .

Email Ken swartz he has blem stones he sells for a discount . He had a nubatama either 140 or 160 grit 2 weeks ago . I know for a fact it wasn't the bamboo 150 though .

Anyhow shape on pro 320 I have used very hard the years I've had it and it wears slow and cuts fast .

On knives to where I think the whole primary grind I really like the finish the 320 leaves on the primary grind .
 
J Thomas said:
pjwoolw ... "Nubatama, Nubatama, Nubatama" ... yep, someday, somehow I'll have to check this brand out, too many good things written about them online. Have you personally had much experience with this brand of stones? If so, how would you describe them to the DMT's and Shapton Glass Stones? Or if you have not had that type of interaction with the stones mentioned, why do you like the Nubatama stones? My wife gets a kick whenever I mention that brand, she said I have to get one someday just because it's fun to say. =)

Thanks for the input and suggestion.
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First online reviews are misleading at best as you really don't know if you haven't done it yourself. I've been sharpening for many years and IMHO the Nubatama offerings are the best available for my tastes. What a sharpening stone is supposed to be is the best I can explain it. One can't compare the difference in nuance compared to other offerings easily since its so subjective to personal tastes. I don't like Shapton Pro stones in general other than the 1500. I have no experience with the Shapton Glass stuff. I can't imagine they would change my opinion. Diamond stuff, other than the Atoma offerings are simply a waste of time and money for me. If someone likes them that's OK and more power to ya. Just my opinions. Keep in mind I sharpen for a living and only use what I think are the best offerings available to me and gives the best product to my customers.
 
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