Niagara Specialty Steel -recent problems

flatgrinder

flatgrinder

Joined
Dec 20, 2005
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Anyone else had issues with Niagara Specialty Steel lately?

I ordered a bar of CPM M4 (paid extra to have it ground flat), made a blade and sent it to Paul Bos Heat Treating -according to Paul, it heat treated like CPM-154 or 154CM -not M4. (I'm going to call Niagara tomorrow to sort this out).

I also ordered some CPM 154 on a different occasion, and while mirror polishing it, the finish had some weird leprosy-look. It wasn't "orange peel" or evenly distributed .... just weird random pits, lots of them. Several years ago, when I worked with CPM 154, the mirror finish was good, and you could see that the steel was made using a particle metallurgy process when held at certain angles in the light. This batch didn't look special at all, looked like crappy 154CM.

Could it be that their rolling process isn't the same as what Crucible used to do? Or did they ship me the wrong material? It just sucks that I spent several hundred dollars for steel, grinding belts, and my time .... :(

I was thinking of switching to CPM 154, but after this, I'm glad that half the knives I'm working on were made from ATS-34. Hand rubbed finishes or stonewashing would most likely hide the imperfections, but it'll be interesting to hear from anyone who mirror polishes CPM steels and if they've had any issues lately.
 
If I'm not mistaken, Niagara has been rolling out Crucible's steel for a long time, so nothing should have changed in that regard.

I finished a knife earlier in the year that was mirror polished CPM154 and it was as perfect as it could be. I wonder if you got into a bad batch or something. Please let us know what you find out.
 
I had some ATS-34 that when it was polished had some spots.Maybe you ended up with some ATS-34.I have had a chane to handle some of your knives.

Great job.

Rick
 
I'm working on a batch of CPM154 blades; no issues thus far.

They may have sent the wrong steel.
 
I'va also been working almost exclusively with CPM154 (15 on the bench as we speak) and no issues thus far. FWIW, I get mine from Aldo.
 
I had some orange peel-looking stuff show up in a bar of cpm-154 not too long ago. For the prices you pay for cpm material I certainly hope there aren't too many bad or mislabeled batches out there. I would be curious to know if this has been experienced by any of the production companies that use cpm.
 
I've worked with CPM 154 over the last couple of years and I have encountered flaws in every knife. They range from small water marks to a little dash type things. Normally I've only found 1 or 2 flaws per blade but the first bar I bought was loaded with them and was unusable. Sad to say but you don't see the flaws until you hit it with a buffer. For me this means I have a whole lot of time and money into it. On the good side, I have been able to go back and grind the defects out without encountering new ones. You can go with RWL34. Pretty much the same steel but more expensive and the supply can be unreliable. I just had to order a couple of hundred dollars worth of CPM154 because of the supply issue. I've used different suppliers for the CPM154 and so far it hasn't made a difference. My current order is with Aldo. (my fingers are crossed)
Dave Wardman
 
Thanks for everyone's input. :thumbup:

Sticktpoint said:
I've worked with CPM 154 over the last couple of years and I have encountered flaws in every knife. They range from small water marks to a little dash type things. Normally I've only found 1 or 2 flaws per blade but the first bar I bought was loaded with them and was unusable. Sad to say but you don't see the flaws until you hit it with a buffer. For me this means I have a whole lot of time and money into it. On the good side, I have been able to go back and grind the defects out without encountering new ones. You can go with RWL34. Pretty much the same steel but more expensive and the supply can be unreliable. I just had to order a couple of hundred dollars worth of CPM154 because of the supply issue. I've used different suppliers for the CPM154 and so far it hasn't made a difference. My current order is with Aldo. (my fingers are crossed)
Dave Wardman
Click to expand...

I've seen the "dash" things too (I believe it's vanadium particles, usually around .080" long), what do you mean by "water marks?" Maybe that's the weird spotting that I've been seeing? You're right about the steel looking fine until it's buffed. :grumpy:

I just called them, they asked me to send the knives in.
 
Just received several calls from Niagara, apparently they checked their records and pulled the wrong steel. Not sure about the pits, but they did their best to make things right. :thumbup:

In the future, make sure you guys get material certifications with your steel, it should be included with every shipment, according to Niagara's rep. From my experience, I wouldn't start work on a knife unless you have the certs -just in case.
 
(I've seen the "dash" things too (I believe it's vanadium particles, usually around .080" long), what do you mean by "water marks?" )


I find the "dash things" in the hollow grind and the water mark things on the flats. The water marks are small, usually about 1/32 " or less. They are easier to get out than the "dash things". The "dash things" vary in length. My bad (first) piece of steel had so many dashes in the hollow grind that it looked like a school of fish swimming toward the point. That was replaced by the supplier but I still lost time and belts on 5 blades.
 
flatgrinder said:
Just received several calls from Niagara, apparently they checked their records and pulled the wrong steel. Not sure about the pits, but they did their best to make things right. :thumbup:

In the future, make sure you guys get material certifications with your steel, it should be included with every shipment, according to Niagara's rep. From my experience, I wouldn't start work on a knife unless you have the certs -just in case.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip. :thumb up: That would save me a big headache.
 
I bought some S35VN from Crucible - it was clearly the right stuff and worked out fine. I think they just made a mistake on your order.

That said, I'm buying from Aldo now - essentially the same pricing, and he will flat surface sand the mill off for a small fee.
 
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