Nightmare Build

scott kozub

scott kozub

Joined
Jan 1, 2018
Messages
861
A coworker asked for a K Tip in AEB-L with a high saber grind with polished copper bolsters and thuya burl scales.

Heat treated a blade and it warped like usual. Bent back straight and ground flat as usual. I started with .11 stock so it ended up at about .95" thick. Trying to do a high saber 50/50 with a crisp line on stock this thing is brutal. Had to start over with a second blade. Finally got with some careful hand sanding.

Stabilized some thuya burl and 3 of the 5 scales warped beyond repair. When mounting the two that came out straight, the one scale split when I was peening the copper handle pins. One remaining scale could be flattend enough. Epoxied a liner on and glued to the the knife. Ground the profile of the scales and noticed that the scale has started to warp again and separate from the tang. also have a 1/2 moon hairline on on bolster that shows up when polishing.

Ah well, guess I need to strip her down and keep going. Need to buy some more burl as well. This is the worst knife I've done to date.
 
Wow. That's what scares me about taking an order, or making something to exact customer specs. If I'm just making a knife to make a knife, it's pretty easy to just change course.
 
You may have done this, but when stabilizing wood it is a good idea to send in blocks instead of scales. If the block warps you can still get some scales out of it.
 
I was trying to stabalize scales that i had purchased. Your right though. I have warped a few scales

Tom Lewis said:
You may have done this, but when stabilizing wood it is a good idea to send in blocks instead of scales. If the block warps you can still get some scales out of it.
Click to expand...
 
I would send the wood to K&G to get stabalized. And I would also glue the scales on and not peen them.
 
Few questions,

Did you try and stabilize the scales your self or had a place do them?

Why are you peening the handle pins was it requested by the customer? Usually peening will split the scales unless done very very gently. This issue will be compounded if the material was not stabilized properly. I don’t peen pins unless it’s artificial material that can take the force. A pins job is to take the shearing force which can pop a glue joint. It’s not really used to hold the scales from pulling off. If your wanting that then I would jump up to a Colby or sex bolt or loveless style retention. If your really wanting something peened then leave it proud and gently dome it like this. It’s common on pocket knife scales. And I think it’s a real nice touch to just about any knife.

Photo%20Dec%2018%2C%202%2042%2003%20PM.jpg
 
Sorry for my ignorance but what is the process of stabilizing wood?
Do you heat treat it to dry it out?
 
SpokaneMatt said:
Sorry for my ignorance but what is the process of stabilizing wood?
Do you heat treat it to dry it out?
Click to expand...

the process is you put them in a box and send it to k&G lol. I’m not sure their exzact process but I know it involves a vacuum chamber and some kind of stabilizing resin. Suck all the air out of the wood and replacing it with the resin.
 
I’ve had a few nightmare builds myself. It happens. It’s the worst when you have to order replacement materials, and you find no one has stock.
 
Stabilized at home by drying and using cactus juice. I know it's not K+G quality but I figure it's better than nothing. I don't advertise them as stabilized unless I have a professionally stabilized, otherwise I just call them wood scales. It also allows me to add some dies to the wood.

I've been peening my pins on scales based on the adage that there should be a mechanical bond and don't want to rely solely on the epoxy. Moving forward, I'll start using corby bolts for them mechanical connection.

I really like that proud peened pin you showed. I haven't seen that before but it looks great.

JTknives said:
Few questions,

Did you try and stabilize the scales your self or had a place do them?

Why are you peening the handle pins was it requested by the customer? Usually peening will split the scales unless done very very gently. This issue will be compounded if the material was not stabilized properly. I don’t peen pins unless it’s artificial material that can take the force. A pins job is to take the shearing force which can pop a glue joint. It’s not really used to hold the scales from pulling off. If your wanting that then I would jump up to a Colby or sex bolt or loveless style retention. If your really wanting something peened then leave it proud and gently dome it like this. It’s common on pocket knife scales. And I think it’s a real nice touch to just about any knife.

Photo%20Dec%2018%2C%202%2042%2003%20PM.jpg
Click to expand...
 
scott kozub said:
Stabilized at home by drying and using cactus juice.
Click to expand...

Sounds like it could be a moisture problem, Any chance the burl you were using was not dry enough before you stabilized it ? Did the wood start out as a block with wax on the ends?
 
SpokaneMatt SpokaneMatt - for future reference knifemaking is really just tool collecting, making and customizing.

Here's an extreme example: Tim Wright has a vise he made that took 600 hours of shop time (you can google it I think). It's the world's most overbuilt vise and, as you might imagine, heirloom quality and will, easily, survive an apocalypse that strikes Sedona. Tim likes good tools - a lot and he uses that vise daily.

My point is this - get used to it.

Warm regards,
Corey "synthesist" Gimbel
 
synthesist said:
SpokaneMatt SpokaneMatt - for future reference knifemaking is really just tool collecting, making and customizing.

Here's an extreme example: Tim Wright has a vise he made that took 600 hours of shop time (you can google it I think). It's the world's most overbuilt vise and, as you might imagine, heirloom quality and will, easily, survive an apocalypse that strikes Sedona. Tim likes good tools - a lot and he uses that vise daily.

My point is this - get used to it.

Warm regards,
Corey "synthesist" Gimbel
Click to expand...

I started making knifes because my wife bought me a kit where you put the handle on and do all the shaping/sanding. I thought it was cool but that just sparked the fact I now "HAD" to make the blade. So I built a coke forge and got to work. That was two months ago, and already I've bought a Atlas forge, am building a belt sander, bought a crappy 4x32 belt sander, 4 sets of tongs......it goes on and on.
The only problem I have is coming up with excuses/reasons I can tell my wife on why all of these things are essential!!

I haven't been this excited or commited to a hobby since I sold my last Harley.
 
Ill save you a bit of cash. Go to the dollar store and get a glass pasta container. Find a ridgid plat you can tap a fitting onto and connect a harbour freight vaccum pump. I used a 1/4" aluminum plate. You need a rubber gasket. For 100 bucks youll be set. I have various jars died different colours.

Wont pass off as professional but i have no oroblem getting full penitration on non oily woods. Once you do that youll want a pressure pot so you can start casting pinecone scales.

Just saw the price of that setup. Thats cheeep. Who knows if it will pull a full vacuum.
SpokaneMatt said:
Ah man....now there is a whole new setup I have to buy or build....this knife making crap is draining my bank account faster than a trophy wife! I am just now finishing my 2x72 belt sander and now this! Has anyone seen or used this setup?

https://www.ebay.com/i/183863740888...xn3b_5ivJWb0olAvUsB6JpcLWwWEckEkaAkJDEALw_wcB
Click to expand...
 
Spalted said:
Sounds like it could be a moisture problem, Any chance the burl you were using was not dry enough before you stabilized it ? Did the wood start out as a block with wax on the ends?
Click to expand...
No they were in scale form when purchased and most warped when drying.
 
SpokaneMatt SpokaneMatt - That lil kit she so innocently gave you was like the initial taste of a highly addictive drug. As the effect of your addiction takes hold you're going to need regular doses of ever more expensive and sophisticated tools, materials, books, videos, classes, emergency room visits, trips to hammer-ins, shows, other people's shops and so on to feed it. So buckle up. The good news is it will be fun, you'll meet some dynamite people and not really be in pain due to your addiction which btw your wife caused in the first place.

There's an old joke about knifemaking. It goes something like this. "how do you become a millionaire knifemaker? Start with 2 million.

Warm regards,

Syn
 
SpokaneMatt said:
Ah man....now there is a whole new setup I have to buy or build....this knife making crap is draining my bank account faster than a trophy wife! I am just now finishing my 2x72 belt sander and now this! Has anyone seen or used this setup?

https://www.ebay.com/i/183863740888...xn3b_5ivJWb0olAvUsB6JpcLWwWEckEkaAkJDEALw_wcB
Click to expand...
I just had K&G stabilize 110 maple burl blocks for me. My students found the wood and I cut it and shipped it off. Shipping both ways and stabilizing totalled about $500 usd. So I'm paying $5/handle block. No messing around, beautiful wood no learning curve, done right. Could even sell 30 blocks at $15-$20 each and get my cost back and have 80 blocks for myself/students if I wanted because I know K&G has done a good job.
 
I remember another maker once wrote that - some knives just flow from your hands and others fight you the whole way...
 
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