Nitro-B question

M

Marine E7

Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
82
Not 1 expert, zero reviews,zero cut tests, zero this VS that charts.
Nobody has used or knows about this Nitro B.
I found one comp chart but that tells me nothing.


At 55-57 RC how does NITRO-B compare in tough/retention to say 1095?

The MFG of the large chopper I want (Fox) claims at 55-57 NITRO-B is both tougher and more retention and resists corrosion like H1.

Overall Length:20.00"
Blade Length:13.50"
Blade Thickness:0.20"
Blade Material:Nitro-B
Hardness:55-57 RC
Blade Style:Kukri
Finish:Satin
Edge Type:Plain
Handle Length:6.50"
Handle Thickness:1.14"
Handle Material:FRN, Rubber
Color:Black
Weight:1 lb. 10.05 oz.
User:Right Hand, Left Hand
Sheath:Leather
Knife Type:Fixed Blade
Brand:Fox Knives
Model:Pathfinder
Model Number:FX-679
Country of Origin:Italy
Best Use:Camp/Hike
Product Type:Knife
 
Looks like N680 with slightly less chrome to me. With N680, the main benefit of nitrogen is increase corrosion resistance. Markus Balbach makes stainless damascus using it and N690. Not a super steel by any stretch of the imagination and it appears to be left a bit soft to boot.
 
Do you think this is more retention and tough then 1095?
1 more question if I may, is D2 tough enough for a chopper 13 inches ( kukri)
 
I have a piece of this steel but have not yet used. Nitro B is commercial name, this steel is made by Buderus Edelstahl Band (http://buderus-steel.com/?products/Tool_steel). About this steel Fox write:"Steel is Nitro B Stainless, made in Germany by Buderus Edelstahl Band. It is a nitrogen steel with high hardness (56-57 HRC) and superior chopping power and edge retention. It is also very rust resistant. "
_________________________

Riccardo Mainolfi
 
Well I messaged the MFG again.This was what I got back.

"Sorry but what is your problem?
Fox manufacturer uses this steel!Perfect ratios!
We sent you all the chemical specifications of the steel composition.
You are the only person in the world that puts so many problems!
300% better then 1095 in test"

Good evening

Best Regards
The Staff

So I have given up on Nitro-B and Fox knives.
Kind of in shock
 
And you didnt' even get the full impact as the wild hand gestures kind of get lost in the Italian to English to e-mail translation. :D
Marine E7 said:
Well I messaged the MFG again.This was what I got back.

"Sorry but what is your problem?
Fox manufacturer uses this steel!Perfect ratios!
We sent you all the chemical specifications of the steel composition.
You are the only person in the world that puts so many problems!
300% better then 1095 in test"

Good evening

Best Regards
The Staff

So I have given up on Nitro-B and Fox knives.
Kind of in shock
Click to expand...
 
What this was about:
I need a Kukri. So I got the Bk21 everyone raves about.I know many here love 1095 (crovan) and will get all bent out of shape.....I am not a fan.The coating is terrible. for 120$+ how about some HAIII or DLC?
I find it dulls far too fast,rust in a day and is just old school.Size and shape of the Bk21 is decent.handle good.I wish a it was a bit bigger. I am a large person,maybe that matters.
it is 2016 for gods sake. why are we still using 1095?

Why do we have no s30v or 3V or ANY modern good steels large choppers?(machete,bolo,parang,kukri ect ect)

So, I was interesed in other kukri but they had no reviews or tests.
One from Ebay,another from many places but untested and un reviewed.

Soooo, I got all 3
I will do a shootout test on all 3 Wed/thurs,based on the weather
Will be some general camp type chores, wood process, down a few 1-3 inch sapps
After I will look with my loop for any chips or rolls and test sharpness.
All are sharpened with my WSK&T belt machine 20DEG/side convex ended with 20 passes at 8000 grit and mirror looking.

Contenders:
Ka-bar/becker BK21 1095
Fox pathfinder NITRO-B
Ebay custom D2 58 rc

Just holding them I like best Fox>bk21>ebay special
Done on these forums for a few more years.
Let me know if any care about my testing.I can post my thoughts

I will give the 2 losers away to friends
 
300 % better than 1095?...Yes. And my hands are stronger than adamant. Please...690 is a 440c no more no less. Nothing to be interest of. Has been pimped as it was a high grade steel. But it is not. Absolutely. I'm not the biggest fan of 1095 but it's ten times better than 690 as the most of carbon steels are better than inox ones.
 
Testing 1/2 done
Will be conclusions at the end
As for now

Dulling :
D2 - STILL sharp. Edge holding is quite amazing.With loop ( only) I can see ...what I will call micro-burrs.maybe micro micro chips. Not sure.Will know more in 1-2 days when tests are done.hangs up a bit on news paper cuts
NITRO-B -Working edge,not razor sharp.Cuts fine...just not news paper.With my loop I can not see any rolls or chips.Just less sharp
Ka-bar crovan -Most dull of the 3. no chips or rolls.cuts ok, less then the NITRO-B.

Restist :
left out over night
D2 -Same
NITRO-B -same
Crovan -a bit of somthing on the edge.micro rust? not sure. came off with rag.

handle ergos after use:
Ebay custom D2 kukri - I guess what yall cal hot spots. not bad.I would not want to use for hours/all day W/O gloves.Short term ok
Fox pathfinder NITRO-B -best handle ( for me). quite grippy.
BK21 -handle is ok, not super grippy but ok.

Cutting:
Fox -best
BK21 - #2
Ebay special #3
used stock edge first, will do again after I work sharp/convex all 3

So far I like this Fox pathfinder most overall.Even with the wierd /unknown NITRO-B steel.
We will see what happened in the next 1-2 days when I am done testing.

As of now,
I find the BK21 overpriced at 120ish bucks.1095 with NO DLC is over priced IMHO.70-...maybe 90$ seems better.You can get a HUGE cold steel warcraft this size for not much more and it is 3V !!!!!
Ebay special at LESS then 100$, for D2 and made nicely. Amazing.
Fox pathfinder -150 seems a bit high.BUT..if it never chips/ rolls and has the resist better then H1....maybe not.
Will know more at the end of the week.

Odd that nobody is making a 3V Kukri,parang,bolo,machete or similar..not even cold steel.

**I have looked at 50 charts that graph tough/retention/resist of 10+ steels per chart
I can not find ONE that has 1095 VS any of these modern steels( d2 s30v 154 m390 ect ect)
 
MELERIAN said:
Please...690 is a 440c no more no less. Nothing to be interest of. Has been pimped as it was a high grade steel. But it is not.
Click to expand...
N690 is NOT 440C. The composition is significantly different and it performs better than 440C in CATRA testing.

Here is a composition comparison of 440C, N690 and VG10:

Tbl--Elements.gif
Tbl-440C-Crucible.gif
Tbl-N690.gif
Tbl-VG10.gif


Chuck
 
mknife said:
I have a piece of this steel but have not yet used. Nitro B is commercial name, this steel is made by Buderus Edelstahl Band (http://buderus-steel.com/?products/Tool_steel). About this steel Fox write:"Steel is Nitro B Stainless, made in Germany by Buderus Edelstahl Band. It is a nitrogen steel with high hardness (56-57 HRC) and superior chopping power and edge retention. It is also very rust resistant. "
_________________________

Riccardo Mainolfi
Click to expand...

Here the small datasheet of the "Nitro-B".
This material is used by me a lot.

Markus Balbach
 

Attachments

Last edited:
Markus, what other European steel does it compare to and why did you pick it for your damascus? Does the moly give you the bright color when etched? It would seem that since it has sufficient carbon, you do not have to limit the amount that you use like with the 300 series steels, correct? What advantages does it have when combined with N690 compared to using N680 or Z FiNit?
Schmiede M. Balbach said:
Here the smal datasheet of the "Nitro-B".
This material is used by me a lot.

Markus Balbach
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Marine E7 said:
How do you compare edge retention and toughness of NITRO-B vs other common steel and 1095
Click to expand...

Our customers are very enthusiastic about the nitro-B!
This steel has a very fine structure and the nitrogen ensures a very high hardness after tempering.
A new stainless and modern steel. In addition to the Sandvik steel 14C28N my favorite steel.
The 1095 is not stainless. For our non-stainless damascus we use an almost compare steel. The characteristics of nitro-B compared to the 1095 are not inferior.
 
Last edited:
jdm61 said:
Markus, what other European steel does it compare to and why did you pick it for your damascus? Does the moly give you the bright color when etched? It would seem that since it has sufficient carbon, you do not have to limit the amount that you use like with the 300 series steels, correct? What advantages does it have when combined with N690 compared to using N680 or Z FiNit?
Click to expand...

jdm61,

the nitro-B etches dark, the N690 bright. Only the carbon content does not always have something to do with the color after etching.
The N680 has insufficient C content, hardness and the hardening temperature is different to the nitro-B.
Even the combination of N680 and nitro-B scored no good etched pattern.
 
Thanks. I was wondering why you use the Nirtro-B instead of the 680. Your answer also tells me that the Z FiNit also would likley not have enough carbon for your purposes.
Schmiede M. Balbach said:
jdm61,

the nitro-B etches dark, the N690 bright. Only the carbon content does not always have something to do with the color after etching.
The N680 has insufficient C content, hardness and the hardening temperature is different to the nitro-B.
Even the combination of N680 and nitro-B scored no good etched pattern.
Click to expand...
 
Test done
Ranking:
Fox pathfinder NITRO-B
K-bar BK21
Custom ebay D2

After quite a few hours using these, The Fox is by far the best IMHO.Handle is by far the best, Blade is by far the best. Cutting the best.( I did Work sharp K&T convex 20/deg all edges)
Handle is much much much better,infact.

D2 held best edge but doing a baton on just a few pieces chipped both stock and convex edge.(convex less)
NITRO-B is quite amazing, I am a fan. Better retention then Ka-bar crovan.I doubt in 90 years it will rust.No chips.
Not quite the edge holding of say S30v but better then say AUS8 .MUCH better then 1095.I would say 2-3x as good. Just as/more tough then 1095 crovan.

The Fox is more heavy then the BK21, for me....I like it.I am a large dude, so nearly 2lbs is no issue.It cuts deep but gets stuck less for some reason or another.
If I rated handles on a 1-10 scale : I have held other various machete,kukri,bolo,parang, woodsman devices and other large choppers with strange names.
Most handles ( for me) rate a 0-3. The Ka-bar BK21 rates a 7. The FOX rates an 11.It is THAT good.

Conclusions:
Fox has superior steel ( by far IMHO)tough,strong,good retention, wont ever rust.
Is it worth 150 some odd bucks..YES

I do not feel the BK21 is a good deal at 120ish $.After a few days of testing I feel it is worth ( to me) perhaps 60-75$.
If you want / need a kukri/machete type tool...save up if you have to and get the Fox. 100% worth it

I spent 15 mins on the Ebay D2 fixing it with my work sharp belt system.Went to 25 DEG/side. Might be just strong enough now. Not sure.Giving it away along with the BK21.

Semper FI
Gunny
 
jdm61 said:
Thanks. I was wondering why you use the Nirtro-B instead of the 680. Your answer also tells me that the Z FiNit also would likley not have enough carbon for your purposes.
Click to expand...

I had understood, N680 istead of the N690.
The N680 instead of Nitro-B would are also very suitable.
But the attainable hardness of N680 is too low.
 
Did spring clean-up today.Used the Fox Pathfinder kukri.Worked great and as expected.Hacked up about 100lbs of various size logs and branches.
Stayed sharp. No chips or rolls.Used a few hours with bare hands.No problems.
Still cuts paper.The work sharp belt system convex edge is amazing.
This is a huge upgrade over the BK21 ( IMHO)..for just a few bucks more.

Semper Fi
Gunny
 
Thank you. I've been interested in the Fox Kukri in Nitro B but like you found little information on the performance . Your review was great and I'm definitely going to get one, still split between Pathfinder and the smaller one(wish it wasn't coated).
Again thanks for the thread and posts .
 
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