No Answer on the 307s

BG42EDGE

BG42EDGE

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PlumberD was questioning the large numbers of NIB 307s that are showing up on the Bay, but the thread got chopped off before we got any answers from the Camillus Forum.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=814756

Unfortunately, after a few days, nothing is settled. The Camillus forum offered "answers" that were not at all conclusive.

At least at this point......

The Buck stamps are not accounted for, nobody seems to know if 307 boxes were sold at the auction and nobody has yet been able to place the Buck tooling at this moment, so there is reasonable doubt about new wave of 307s NIB with paperwork that are showing up.

I have a strong feeling that there's nobody around that can answer these questions with any degree of certainty, so I guess it will just have to remain in the realm of the questionable.

But prices are down on that new wave.
 
One new thing, though......it looks to me like Camillus sent knives to Buck and Buck then boxed them in boxes that Buck provided.

So the answer on the odd-looking boxes would have to come from Buck.

Honestly, I suppose these must be all right, but I guess I'll never be entirely convinced.

The expert over there swears nobody could ever fool him.

Maybe so, maybe not.
 
Others have bought some of the new explosion of NIB 307s and I think the Camillus "expert" or "experts" will be looking at one of them to try to authenticate it.

That may provide an opinion, but I doubt that authentication can be done conclusively other than by a lab analysis of the steel.
 
Maybe this will help.

The top knife is a Camillus jumbo stockman made in the early 90's.

Bottom knife is a Buck 307 Wrangler bought last year NIB off of Ebay, from a lot that was bought at the Camillus auction.

307-Camillusclone.jpg


Sitting here with both of them, and they are the same knife, just one made under contract for Buck, and one with Camillus' own name.
 
Bottom knife is a Buck 307 Wrangler bought last year NIB off of Ebay, from a lot that was bought at the Camillus auction.
Click to expand...

Very interesting.

NIB........so that inspires a question. How would there be Buck boxes and literature at the Camillus auction? Wouldn't all that have been added AFTER Camillus shipped the knives in bulk to Buck?

But if the knives were sold at the auction, they never got to Buck.......so they wouldn't have had boxes.

At least that's what the Camillus expert said.

The Camillus expert also said he'd never seen that type of box.

He also said the tooling for the knife had been "scattered to the four winds."

So it's entirely possible that someone could make boxes and perfect copies of the knives and sell them as collectibles.

I think the only way to know for sure is to send it to a lab and have the blade analyzed to see if the steel matches the steel used by Camillus.

The main thing is, you're happy with your knife.

:)
 
BG42EDGE said:
Very interesting.

NIB........so that inspires a question. How would there be Buck boxes and literature at the Camillus auction? Wouldn't all that have been added AFTER Camillus shipped the knives in bulk to Buck?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily, as Phil said in the Camillus thread,

"To my knowledge the majority of the knives sold at the auction did not have boxes & papers.
A room full of boxes & papers (all brands) was sold at the auction in 1 or 2 lots."
Click to expand...

He also mentioned in response to RickR,

"However, do you recall that the group that held The Company's Note shipped a large quantity of finished goods from the factory to their Texas offices just before shutting us down?
That would imply to me that these knives are not just Camillus made, but distributed through Buck too!"
Click to expand...

Also, when I used the term NIB earlier, I meant the knife is in unused condition. The brass liners clearly show the typical signs of darkening from years of sitting around in storage.


While it can be fun to engage in conspiracy theories, does it really sound that feasible that anyone would go to the expense and trouble of essentially faking a knife, box and paper insert, that was dropped years ago for poor sales, and current prices are barely higher, and at times even lower, than current Buck retail, and certainly not in any real "collectible" range?
 
I'm perfectly satisfied that all mine are the real thing and not some "Chinese" reproduction. Maybe I'm just more apt to take the opionon of an expert as fact than I am to engage in a conspiracy theory.
 
does it really sound that feasible that anyone would go to the expense and trouble of essentially faking a knife, box and paper insert, that was dropped years ago for poor sales, and current prices are barely higher, and at times even lower, than current Buck retail, and certainly not in any real "collectible" range?
Click to expand...

Yes, if you can make them cheap enough (which China can do).

And......if collectors are buying them, they'd be considered a collectible.

A couple of people, including the "expert" said they had never before seen the boxes that are with the knives being sold now on e-Bay.

And why did the expert first imply that he knew exactly who had the tooling and later change that to say that the tooling was "scattered to the winds."

No conspiracy theories on my end, just asking questions and getting answers that don't add up.
 
BG42EDGE said:
A couple of people, including the "expert" said they had never before seen the boxes that are with the knives being sold now on e-Bay.
Click to expand...

As much as it goes against the grain to reply directly, I can't resist at this point. It's possible that the other expert had never seen those boxes, but this "expert" not only has, but has several of them. These two contain a 525 and a 500.

You don't suppose that they are being ripped off by the Chinese also??;)

Boxesa.jpg


Boxesb.jpg


Boxesc.jpg
 
Unfortunately, more pictures of the boxes really has nothing to do with the question that was asked.

Nice pictures of boxes, though. You have a gift for photography.

Boxes are the easiest thing to counterfeit.....knives are a bit more difficult.
 
BG42EDGE said:
Unfortunately, more pictures of the boxes really has nothing to do with the question that was asked.
Click to expand...

:confused::confused: All the picture do is to prove that Buck used that design box and they aren't a mystery so there's no reason that the same box couldn't have been used for the 307's. Both of those two contain knives with 2002 (ANVIL) stamps.
 
Say BeeGee, do you have nightmares of sliding down that slippery slope and landing in a pile of counterfeit Bucks? :D
 
All the picture do is to prove that Buck used that design box and they aren't a mystery so there's no reason that the same box couldn't have been used for the 307's.
Click to expand...


No reason that it couldn't have been and equally no reason to believe that it actually WAS......only that it could have been.

Same as all the other "expert proof" in the discussion.

That's exactly my point.
 
BG42EDGE said:
No reason that it couldn't have been and equally no reason to believe that it actually WAS......only that it could have been.

Same as all the other "expert proof" in the discussion.

That's exactly my point.
Click to expand...

So based on your reasoning,,,that whole flock of little 425's on ebay right now can also be counterfeit, ya think??
 
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