No feedback for incomplete transactions.

Joined
Apr 4, 2007
Messages
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I was curious how this rule came to be and if it is something that the mods and owner feel need to be set in stone. It seems the rule is that unless the items for trade or sale as well as the cash have transfered ownership and stayed that way then no feedback can be left. Unfortunately this seems to allow a certain brand of people to abuse use this rule and really take advantage of long established members. It seems there isnt a day that gos by when someone doesnt start a thread upset with how a deal went down and they had and there was obvious mistakes being made yet because the deal fell apart there is no way to keep record of people abusing the rule. People are backing out of deals after money has been sent, and terms agreed upon. People are buying knives with pictures and then lying about condition to get a refund. People are buying knives and tearing them apart and then trying to return them when it turns out it wasnt the "investment" they hoped it would be. Luckily that last one never stuck. But people are abusing FSOT agreements left and right and they know that as long as they get the agreement disolved nothing can touch them. And sure people can create a thread about it in the feedback forum but those are heat of the moment threads to discuss and after some time they disappear. I am no one here. I dont have a paid membership. But I do buy from people. And with all the nonsense lately Its hard for me to do that. I am not insisting but I do hope a couple of the proposed rules below are considered to help protect the community because as it is right now? It just seems way to easy to do as you wish with no accountability. Again just some suggestions

1. Possibly make feedback allowed if terms are reached and payment or tracking created. IMHO this is when a deal is done. You make and agreement and its expected you stick to it. Research, wives, shouldnt be able to be a feather in the cap

2. possibly allow feedback even if a deal is dissolved. I feel if knives are shipped and money is exchanged that deal was done. I personally feel if it is wished to be reversed it should be looked at as a new deal especially if the reasons given are nonsense. I think we all know what should and shouldnt be allowed.

3. Possibly create a rule that states only specific circumstances in which a deal can be backed out of. sure people could still lie, but its harder to come up with excuses. It really seems people are using members as a walmart. Some have even stated they feel they have a right to a return. IMHO this should not be allowed. People need to be sure of something before they commit. If the knife is not as described fine that needs to be dealt with. But these change of hearts, i did more research, my wife said no, I was drinking excuses really are getting tiresome. And seeing many of the issues are created by newer members I almost feel they study GB&U in order to see just what they can get away with.

I apologize if this seems like a passionate knee jerk thread. But I used to see one or two nasty threads a month and now its seems to be a daily occurrence. And the mods are having a hard time handling the impassioned responses from members but in some of these cases it really is hard to keep quite when you see your friends being taken. I think the part that bothers me most is those pulling all this truly feel they are entitled to their antics. Im not saying any of my rules need to be considered. They are just suggestions. But I do really feel something has to change. We are constantly pushing for people to do their research. And in most cases research will prevent many of the problems we have been having. But in some of these cases no amount of research will uncover some of the offenders. I dont want to be unfair to anyone. We have to remember that scammers are usually pretty clever. And they strike when they see a weakness in a communities defenses. And IMHO this is a pretty big weakness. Sorry if this thread offended anyone. I really am just trying to think of a way to get some normalcy to BSOT.
 
One thing I notice is that in the last 3 years, everyone and their gramma came on the scene, fanboys a blazin' and all. Trying to build a super knife collection in under a year that most people took 10-15 years to build. With this influx of hipster-like knife collectors also caused a ton of trouble in the BSOT sections. People getting trigger happy, proud of their collections and money and whatever else and not giving a frog's fat ass about the way things were done here. Acting like they were doing everyone a favor by just being a member here. These folks have their own ideas of how things should be. Do we ban them? Do we try and teach them? How can we help them? Should we help them at all?

From what I see, there is no way to make the software any different that it currently is. If people are having a hard time reading, understanding, and following the few rules there are now, imagine making things different? Take about brain explosions. In any online community, you take your chances when you buy an item. We try to help people by educating, having the GBU section, establishing rules that evolve as the community needs change, etc. It won't help anyone unless people first read and know what is expected of them when they are here. Bottom line is that adding more rules, won't help unless we get people to read them first. That is the biggest challenge and until then, warnings and infractions seem to work as a way to alert people when they step in it.
 
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One thing I notice is that in the last 3 years, everyone and their gramma came on the scene, fanboys a blazin' and all. Trying to build a super knife collection in under a year that most people took 10-15 years to build. With this influx of hipster-like knife collectors also caused a ton of trouble in the BSOT sections. People getting trigger happy, proud of their collections and money and whatever else and not giving a frog's fat ass about the way things were done here. Acting like they were doing everyone a favor by just being a member here. These folks have their own ideas of how things should be. Do we ban them? Do we try and teach them? How can we help them? Should we help them at all?

From what I see, there is no way to make the software any different that it currently is. If people are having a hard time reading, understanding, and following the few rules there are now, imagine making things different? Take about brain explosions. In any online community, you take your chances when you buy an item. We try to help people by educating, having the GBU section, establishing rules that evolve as the community needs change, etc. It won't help anyone unless people first read and know what is expected of them when they are here. Bottom line is that adding more rules, won't help unless we get people to read them first. That is the biggest challenge and until then, warnings and infractions seem to work as a way to alert people when they step in it.

Thanks Rev. Im Ignorant to how the software for the forum works. And in hindsight I should have thought about it bit first before making the thread. I am sure if there was an easy fix to the problem you guys would have dealt with it. Apologies.
 
No worries, people want to discuss the topic and we are good with that. Maybe through discussion we can find a solution to making things smoother for all.
 
Lol @ "knife hipsters", and it's true.

That was funny.

Ive noticed that Neutral feedback is very rarely given.

Perhaps that could be allowed as a choice for these mishaps, given there is concise and accurate reasoning left in the 80 characters allowed.
 
Nwutral is good for the mature among us and not the ones hell bent on a revenge move.
 
I started writing a post in this thread. The more I wrote the less sense it made. This is a complicated issue. The feedback system does need improvement but how? Like Rev said, making more rules and making it more complicated would let people mess up more. If they don't know how to use it now, making it more complicated won't help even if those of us who read the rules and follow them would have no trouble with the improvement. As it is the feedback system basically tells us how many successful transactions you have completed. While this is a good indicator it is of very little value on its own. A person with no negatives could be an a-hole in the community with negative threads in the GB&U with warnings and infractions galore. None of that will show in the feedback. A person with a negative feedback could have dealt with one crazy person who left negative feedback that has not been overturned but overall be a great member and an asset to the community. The point is other factors tell you a lot more about who you are dealing with than the feedback system. Unfortunately, just like how people don't read the rules here, they also don't take our advice on researching a prospective transaction partner. I don't know how to help people do what they should. You can't fix stupid unfortunately.

Just a thought. Maybe when you go to look at someone's feedback, there could be a note or sticky or something to remind people to consider other factors besides just feedback (GB&U search, posting areas, reminder to check posting style and infractions, etc...).
 
Just a thought. Maybe when you go to look at someone's feedback, there could be a note or sticky or something to remind people to consider other factors besides just feedback (GB&U search, posting areas, reminder to check posting style and infractions, etc...).

I think you nailed it there. If someone is a contributing member to this community, I feel like they have a lot more invested here and therefore a lot more to lose. If someone contributes in other areas regularly, has a good number of positive feedback and takes their time to show that they are not hiding anything in their listing, I feel like I can buy with confidence.

Even those who have a super high number of 100% feedback and 90% of their posts are in the Exchange, I'll take a step back and do some deeper research into the knife that they are listing. And, yes, I have felt burned at least twice on purchases from guys with a super high number of 100% positive feedback. One guy offered to make it right, and did. The other one I didn't notice the issue (blade swap, confirmed by MFG) with the knife until 3 months after the purchase.

A big one for me is to beware of vague descriptions and limited pictures.
 
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