No flux welding

Gary Mulkey

Gary Mulkey

Joined
May 14, 2001
Messages
1,414
There's been so much talk about welding without any flux recently that I decided to do a little experimenting today. I'm a bit "Old School" in that I was taught to weld with borax about forty years ago and am reluctant to give up the old ways. Today I tried welding with no flux what so ever. I started with a typical 20 layer billet of 1084 & 15N20 and spot welded the bars with my MIG. I then placed it in the forge with my usual six inch flame extending from the opening. After a short soak at welding temp, I did my usual light squeeze in the press and back into the forge for another soak. The second time I did my usual heavy squeeze in the press. In order to really test the welds I then did a "W" squeeze and drew the billet out and cut into six pieces. Without doing any grinding I stacked them and spot welded with the MIG. I wanted to see if leaving all of the scale on would make any difference. I then returned the billet to the forge for a ten minute soak at welding temp. The idea being that the oxygen free environment there would turn the scale back to steel. Here's the result:

nofluxbillet_zps3d05334b.jpg


Though it's a long way from a finished blade, so far I can't see any flaws. I guess that the process works.

Let me know if you've tried anything similar and what you think.

Gary
 
Looks great so far. Have not tried that yet, heck barely done any welding even with borax. Keep us informed how the finished project comes out.

Question slightly off topic. So I was gonna grab a little welder to do stuff like weld the end of billets, when you tack weld the ends do you need to grind them off after welding the billet up or do they get worked out, or do you just lop off the ends when your all done.

Thanks.
 
quint said:
Question slightly off topic. So I was gonna grab a little welder to do stuff like weld the end of billets, when you tack weld the ends do you need to grind them off after welding the billet up or do they get worked out, or do you just lop off the ends when your all done.
Click to expand...

I normally spot weld the sides with a MIG and grind off the beads after forge welding.

Gary
 
I'm been experimenting too. I saved a lot of the iron filings from my grinding and used it instead of flux. The filings melt almost instantly, can be worked easily, and seem to produce a good result. I'm primarily interested in using them to forge weld, and may fix them with flux in the future.


Gary, I like your results, but I'm surprised you got those results without fluxing.
 
The iron filings + flux is and old technique. No reason why it wouldn't work !!
 
I think that the secret is the long soak at welding temp in an oxygen free environment. I had no idea of how that it would work out but glad that it did. I may rethink my welding now.

Gary
 
I'm following this and the other thread on the other forum with great interest. I'd love to see the results from several folks that have tried it, and I REALLY want to see how that billet turns out. It'll be a while before I can test this myself, but the chemistry makes sense to me and even explains a few things that seemed contradictory (they were) in how I was taught to weld. Everyone hates flux (except the folks who sell kaowool), and if this really catches on it would change everything, or at least lead to a lot fewer forge rebuilds. I hope this thread and the other kick off experiments across the country, and that everyone posts the results.
 
Gary, did you do anything different than normal other than what you didn't do? How did the scale reverting to steel turn out in the reduced environment?
 
zaph1 said:
Gary, did you do anything different than normal other than what you didn't do? How did the scale reverting to steel turn out in the reduced environment?
Click to expand...

The only thing that I did differently was the long soak at welding temp which got rid of all the scale.

Gary
 
I have heard of people using kerosene for flux all that had tried it had good results. This goes along with what I have tried heat treating 440c and cpm154cm pre grinding without the use of foil. It works for me is all I can say.
 
Just wanted to add I did get to run the forge saturday for a while. Tried 3 layers of 1075 stacked and tacked up at the ends. Got a very succesful weld without any flux. It actually welded up easier then my previous attempts using flux. I think part of this is because hand forging I think (just guessing) it was tougher to get the flux squeezed out during the initial hammering. I am sure with a press or something it wouldnt matter as much.

I wanna try a mix next time. Just such a bear doing it all by hand.
 
Karl B. Andersen said:
I know this is an old post, but Darryl Meier was doing it in the late seventies.
I know this for a fact.
(Midwest trumps the northwest. :D )
Click to expand...

Darryl Meier, is God when it comes to damascus and god can do anything. So that don't count.

I watched Tom Ferry stack and weld 99 pieces of 1080 and 15n20 into a 3x3 basket weave pattern with 11 pieces of steel in each square of the basket without grinding the mill scale or cleaning in any way. then forge weld into a solid in three welds. yes the billet was more than twenty pounds when started.

Check
 
I once welded a 324 layer billet of steel standing on one foot!!!
Check mate. :D


Bill Burke said:
Darryl Meier, is God when it comes to damascus and god can do anything. So that don't count.

I watched Tom Ferry stack and weld 99 pieces of 1080 and 15n20 into a 3x3 basket weave pattern with 11 pieces of steel in each square of the basket without grinding the mill scale or cleaning in any way. then forge weld into a solid in three welds. yes the billet was more than twenty pounds when started.

Check
Click to expand...
 
I was the witness. I helped Bill up the mountain and put him on my atv. Sent him home and kept hunting. We were forging thje next day. Gary
 
I watched Tom do this welding in my shop in my forge. I did not think it would work, but Tom had a solid bar with no flaws when done. Even after watching it happen I have not tried It myself.[no guts?] Oh and Bill went to the hospital and had 3 screws put in his ankle.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top