Non-locking blade vs. couger.

[LikeHike]

On Larry King tonight there was a short interview with a young guy was attacked by a mountain lion in 1998. He tried to fight it off with his non-locking SAK After several strikes it folded in on him and cut him. He managed to escape finally after falling down the slope with it gripping him, etc.

 

[knarfeng]

And your point would be...?

Think there would be problems no matter what the knife.
I know that in India Tigers were hunted with Kukris, but that is a lot of knife to carry and would take a lot of training to use successfully. I've read about the technique. I doubt that I would have the stuff to use it.

I am told that the best bet when confronted by a mountain lion is to be loud and look large so that the cat tries a different meal. Can't say that I ever had to try it. But that is what the park rangers in the Southern California mountains tell us. It sounds better than me and my trusty Buck 110 wrestling with a cougar.

 

[redhawk44p]

I would get the FB Temperance for cougar defense. Sal designed it just for that. Below is a discussion about it-

As Sal is away at the moment, if no one minds and with the greatest respect I will try and answer your question after discussing this for a little while with Sal.
I don't remember how the conversation started, but I think it was as a result of my mentioning to Sal how well my numbered Temperance did at a recient Hammer in at Doc Price's. We were performing cutting tests on various materials, but most importantly wet matting as used to test Katana blades and the like. The matting must have been 8" thick at the very least, perhaps even 10" thick. The Temperance went a long way through the matting and surprised everyone! Eyes were wide at how well it performed. To be honest I used the knife as a joke to see what it could do. I did not have high expectations, but it really shocked me how deeply it bit and how massive the cutting power was when it cut through the matting. Two hits severed the matting. Thats highly impressive, when you consider the other blades were all 10" or longer.
Sal nodded his head and began by asking me what knife I would want on me if I were jumped by a Mountain Lion. You see he explained they have them where he lives and Gail confirmed a very close sighting of tracks right by their bedroom window! So the danger from such a creature is very very real. I thought about it for a moment and decided my HI Kukrhi would be the knife I would want. Sal asked what my reasons were for this choice and I reasoned that is was sharp (I have a reputation for getting a great edge you could say!), had a good reach and its weight and efficiant cutting shape made for a devistating tool if you really needed a knife to take on a lion. Sal nodded at this as said these were valid points, however... he pointed out that that while the Kukrhi was capable of a devistating if not out right fatal first chopping blow, (even a full sized bear could not take a full power hit to the skull from this blade) the mountain lion tries to get in very close to you awfully fast. In fact chances are very high he will hit you from behind, you will be on the ground with a savage killer with massive power in his paws and claws not to mention jaws! You will be in a wresling match with a creature stronger than you and at least as heavy. So Sal pointed out, how is that massive Kukrhi going to help you now? I winced at the picture Sal pointed out and remembered my Karate instructors advice of thinking about fighting someone in a phone box...
So, Sal pointed out the features of this knife that made it the perfect self defence tool against a Cougar! Firstly the blade shape and sharpness. You have a tapered full flat ground blade with a very efficiant cross section for minumum resistance when trying for a penetrating hit repeatedly. Sal said "they" or "he" (I forget which) spent a great deal of time finding the optimum compromise between ease of insertion, wide would channel, blade strength and utility. He did not want a stilletto style blade or dagger as they has limited use in the day to day aplication of a utility blade. Remember this knife is still a fantastic camp knife.
Well Sal found that balance between utility, offence and strength. That blade is the Temperance. Sal explained that when the lion has you down, you want a blade that you can very rapidly stab stab stab into the lion without hesitation. A blade that will go in with frightening ease, but not break if you hit a rib or hard bone. Sal said you will be panicked and using unskilled max power in you blows. Desperatly trying to get the lion to let you go. He showed me the rapid stabbing style with different grips, how the handle gives a good grip even when covered in blood or oil, how the back of the handle has a "beak" or thumb holder, the only way to have a really good reverse hammer grip is to cap the grip with you thumb. Look at the handle closely, this knife handle almost looks at first like a cheap kitchen knife, then you see the details, how comfortable it is to hold and then the MBC index points are visable. This is a MBC/fighting knife that looks and performs great as a kitchen or camp knife. The wide blade made from VG-10 holds and takes a breathtakingly sharp edge. That wide blade makes a terrible and wide wound channel.
No sir, this is not a knife to get stabbed with! To my limited fighting experience and somewhat more experienced bushcrafting and knife user eye, this is an utility blade that steps into the phone booth as you would say and comes out with its under wear on the outside of its costume. Its a fighting knife disguised as utility blade. Its the look on the wolfs face when amoungst the sheep and Irish wolfhound appears! Its the Irish wolfhound of knives. Looks like a sheep till it steps up and bites you!
Sorry for the ramble.

 

[LikeHike]

And your point would be...?

Interesting to know others actual outdoor experiences with knives. For those of us that spend a lot of time outdoors and in mountain lion/bear country I find this particularly interesting.

[/QUOTE]Think there would be problems no matter what the knife.
I know that in India Tigers were hunted with Kukris, but that is a lot of knife to carry and would take a lot of training to use successfully. I've read about the technique. I doubt that I would have the stuff to use it.[/QUOTE]

The way it sounded in the guys description of stabbing the cat he was going for the neck and head. This was close quarters and a shorter knife was probably an advantage. He may have had a chance at stopping the cat at that point. I would assume the Kukris would be much better if it had not already grasped you.

[/QUOTE]I am told that the best bet when confronted by a mountain lion is to be loud and look large so that the cat tries a different meal. Can't say that I ever had to try it. But that is what the park rangers in the Southern California mountains tell us. It sounds better than me and my trusty Buck 110 wrestling with a cougar. [/QUOTE]

I agree! This guy was faced with the mountain lion before it attached. He did not mention using these methods. Unfortunately mountain lions often attach with stealth. I have heard other stories of people fighting off predators with knives.

 

[knarfeng]

That could be. Guess if it came down to it I'd even try my SAK classic if I had nought else.

You are correct about the kukri not being used at infighting. The indians killed tigers by waiting for the tiger to spring, then stepping aside and cutting the tendons in one of the paws, then repeating to get the other paw. Once the tiger was crippled, they would go for the throat.

I agree that a locking blade would better than non-locking, but I still think that without some sort of training or practice, fighting off a cougar with a knife is a long odds proposition. God willing, neither of us will find out by personal experience.

cheers

 

[LikeHike]

"God willing, neither of us will find out by personal experience."
Amen to that!!!

"I still think that without some sort of training or practice, fighting off a cougar with a knife is a long odds proposition."
When I have played with house cats before and had four sets of claws and sharp teeth all attached to my arm I have tried to project that out to a mountain lion or tiger size - pretty scary.
I do not have Tarzan illusions (I can picture him fighting a tiger in old movies)but I do carry a 3.5" locking blade or a 4 to 5 inch fixed blade when I am out in predator territory. Chances are minimal anything would ever happen but it makes me feel better. Added confidence/less fear can help prevent problems.