Non-metalic knives, something that could be carried daily.

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TheMightyGoat

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This thread was inspired by the "Ceramic knives for EDC" thread. I saw the Mad Dog Frequent Flyer made of G10 (by the way, does that name insinuate defeating airport security?), and it got me wondering about other non-metalic knives. I'm interested in buying one some time in the future. Something for simple self-defense, that could, for instance, pass a metal detector. (Not that I would do that... it's just the feeling of being able to, if you know what I mean).

This thread is as much curiosity as it is speculating a practical purchase, but still, does anyone know of some knives that fit my description? As I said, it would only need to be for simple self-defense, so I don't need anything too fancy or expensive.

Thanks for any help.
 
Yeah, I'll vouch for that -- the Delta Dart has a really cool feel in the hand. Feels almost like a drumstick, but lethal. :P In fact, it does make you want to play air-drums. A.G. Russel also makes "plastic" knives -- possibly also of Zytel -- that are more formed like a real double-edged knife, rather than a spike. These can be sharpened (but not to something like a shaving edge or even close) on simple sandpaper. They're cheap, too, under $10. I think they call them the Executive Letter Opener or CIA Letter Opener or something.
 
The two BEST plastic (Zytel, glass reinforced nylon) knives are the Cold Steel Delta Dart and the A.G. Russell CIA Letter Opener (the original).
The reason for this is because non-metallics, especially of softer plastic like zytel, are stabbing weapons and stabbing weapons alone. You cant cut flesh with them, so you want the blade to do as much tissue damage when thrusting to hit vitals as it possible. The triangular shape of the Delta Dart and the unique cross section of the heavily fullered CIA Letter Opener leave nasty wounds, and both blade shapes are strong, and dont experiance tip deformation easily.
As cheap last ditch tools they cant be beat. You may never need them, but the one day you intuition says "carry this" - it could save your ass.
Some will say the Delta Dart can be cut where the blade meets the handle, so it can be snapped off inside someone - but this is more an assassination technique than a real world defense technique.
The CAT tanto has too fragile (soft) an edge and point to do much at all - and its too large to carry easily for something that cant cut. I found it best to grind it down and make a trainer. Other "CIA Letter Openers" and the Lansky "The Knife" are either too thin, and will bend, or experiance too much tip deformation just sitting around to be ones I really like.

Above and beyond Zytel is G-10, or the G-10 like composite Mad Dog uses. This will cut on a EXTREMELY limited basis, somewhat better if it is serrated - but still, its a stabbing tool - just tougher than Zytel, wont deform on a single stab.
Above that is Carbon Fiber - carbon fiber WILL take an edge that can make four or five nasty gashes in meat before its dull - which gives it some added advantage over other synthetic materials. The reason it will cut like this is because fibers along the edge seperate, causing a micro-serration effect, like you can get on steel. This type of edge can be restored with an emery board or sand paper.
Carbon Fiber can be serrated, and the serrations will keep ripping tissue long after their micro-fibre-serrations are worn off. And it can also be used to build larger knives as you can see.
Carbon Fiber is also extremely strong, and light-weight at the same time.

In my work making blades from plastics, G-10 and C/F, I've found C/F to be the best, and I work with it almost 100% of the time, unless a customer requests something different. Its what I would reccomend someone to use when they find a maker willing to make them a non-metallic.

The only thing better than that would be one of the all ceramic knives from Mad Dog, but they arent made any longer - and the ones that were sold to civillians had metal inserts in the handles (ont he rubber handled ones, this wouldnt be a problem, peel the rubber off, remove the metal, and then stick the handle in Dip-It or something.)
 
Originally posted by satin
The two BEST plastic (Zytel, glass reinforced nylon) knives are the Cold Steel Delta Dart and the A.G. Russell CIA Letter Opener (the original).
The reason for this is because non-metallics, especially of softer plastic like zytel, are stabbing weapons and stabbing weapons alone. You cant cut flesh with them, so you want the blade to do as much tissue damage when thrusting to hit vitals as it possible. The triangular shape of the Delta Dart and the unique cross section of the heavily fullered CIA Letter Opener leave nasty wounds, and both blade shapes are strong, and dont experiance tip deformation easily.
As cheap last ditch tools they cant be beat. You may never need them, but the one day you intuition says "carry this" - it could save your ass.
Some will say the Delta Dart can be cut where the blade meets the handle, so it can be snapped off inside someone - but this is more an assassination technique than a real world defense technique.
The CAT tanto has too fragile (soft) an edge and point to do much at all - and its too large to carry easily for something that cant cut. I found it best to grind it down and make a trainer. Other "CIA Letter Openers" and the Lansky "The Knife" are either too thin, and will bend, or experiance too much tip deformation just sitting around to be ones I really like.

Above and beyond Zytel is G-10, or the G-10 like composite Mad Dog uses. This will cut on a EXTREMELY limited basis, somewhat better if it is serrated - but still, its a stabbing tool - just tougher than Zytel, wont deform on a single stab.
Above that is Carbon Fiber - carbon fiber WILL take an edge that can make four or five nasty gashes in meat before its dull - which gives it some added advantage over other synthetic materials. The reason it will cut like this is because fibers along the edge seperate, causing a micro-serration effect, like you can get on steel. This type of edge can be restored with an emery board or sand paper.
Carbon Fiber can be serrated, and the serrations will keep ripping tissue long after their micro-fibre-serrations are worn off. And it can also be used to build larger knives as you can see.
Carbon Fiber is also extremely strong, and light-weight at the same time.

In my work making blades from plastics, G-10 and C/F, I've found C/F to be the best, and I work with it almost 100% of the time, unless a customer requests something different. Its what I would reccomend someone to use when they find a maker willing to make them a non-metallic.

The only thing better than that would be one of the all ceramic knives from Mad Dog, but they arent made any longer - and the ones that were sold to civillians had metal inserts in the handles (ont he rubber handled ones, this wouldnt be a problem, peel the rubber off, remove the metal, and then stick the handle in Dip-It or something.)
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So you're saying carbon fiber is better than Zytel? Could you give an example of a carbon fiber knife? I did some searching but I couldn't find any that didn't have a metal handle.
 
MightyGoat - yes carbon fiber is better than any material I have tried (never tried ceramic, but thats a different ball-park, and we all know it will cut better).
The blue text in my post, thats links to pictures of carbon fiber knives. Both by me, although I am not trying to advertise - one just showing that a large knife, with serrations, is possible (Warrior style) and the other showing several pictures of meat cut with a carbon fiber blade, and the blade I used to do it.
You might run a search for Eric Blair/Toxic Toys - Mr. Blair no longer works with CF, but he used to make some rather nice carbon fiber blades. Or email me and I'll give you a couple more .jpeg examples of stuff I've cooked up. (Not trying to sell here guys, just trying to help out - and thats honestly the best I can offer for examples of this type of blade.)


Warren Thomas uses metal in his knives - not pure carbon fiber, just overlays - totally different, because they arent non-metallic that way.
 
Originally posted by TheMightyGoat
Something for simple self-defense, that could, for instance, pass a metal detector.
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I was wondering if these newer non-metalic knives had a small strip of metal in them to prevent a metal detector pass through. Seems like a bad way to start a vacation if you're caught with one.

-Jason
 
Originally posted by satin


The only thing better than that would be one of the all ceramic knives from Mad Dog, but they arent made any longer - and the ones that were sold to civillians had metal inserts in the handles (ont he rubber handled ones, this wouldnt be a problem, peel the rubber off, remove the metal, and then stick the handle in Dip-It or something.)
Click to expand...

Actually Mad Dog DOES still make ceramic knives...the Operator has not been discontinued (I just got one) although some of the other models (EOD) are no longer offered.

As far as I know, less than 10% of all MD ceramic knives ever made had the metal strip in the handle.

Satin, Warren Thomas has made COMPLETELY non-magnetic knives out of carbon fiber (see Bladeart pic below)...he currently offers all titanium knives or carbon/titanium combos with carbide edge

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Busse also made one at some point...here's a pic of the Stealth Hawk

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RL
 
Originally posted by uppercutKO
I wonder how obsidian might work in day to day use.
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I think obsidian is pretty brittle, and I know it's pretty heavy. It might be difficult to fracture right in order to make a knife... I dunno how well it would sand or file down. You have an interesting thought, though.

Edit: After a bit of research I see that quite a few arrow heads and the like are made from obsidian.
 
How about glass laminates?

Glass would probably be a very good non-metallic knife blade ut it is too brittle.

I don't know if its possible to laminate glass with nylon, but if it is, what about a very thin glass center for cutting with nylon or Zytle on the outside to protect the glass / absorb impact, and the outside can be sharpened easily with sandpaper.
 
you don't sand or grind obsidian, you flake it, just like flint. Well, maybenot exactly same, been told there's an art to each.

Obsidian, being nothign but volcanic glass, is doable for knives and will achieve about sharpest edge you can get on anything, if made correctly. So that also answers the question about using glass. Doable, not practical
 
I've taken to rebelling against "metal detector mania" by carting a Comtech Stinger around on a daily basis. I know it's no substitute for a knife, but it makes me feel better and more importantly to me it represents some little bit of civil disobedience against the nosiness of others. It may technically be illegal in some areas or jurisdictions, but the go-to-jail factor has to be considerably lower than with a Delta Dart or other knife-like implement.
 
Mad Dog frequent fliyers are still available - BladeArt gets them from time to time. The regular is a neck knife version, while the Pygmy version is larger and comes with two sheaths - IWB belt clip type and inside-the-breast pocket type. Both knives are very well done. They are of a G-10 material, exceptional for peircing, not so great at cutting. The Mad Dog MX ceramics are superior as both cutters and piercers, but are much harder to come by.

I sold off my Operators, but retain my Micro and Hunter and also have the Pygmy frequent flyer. Very nice adjunct to my steel collection.
 
Originally posted by RL
...Satin, Warren Thomas has made COMPLETELY non-magnetic knives out of carbon fiber (see Bladeart pic below)...
RL
Click to expand...

Thanks for findin' that pic RL:cool: I knew he made one, that's what got me interested in CF in the first place.
 
I would LOVE to arrange a deal whereby I would professionally copy-edit Mad Dog's website in exchange for just one of the Mirage-X ceramic knives...That site is in desperate need. Ya think he'd be amenable? :p

I *am* very thorough...

---Jeffrey
 
My Bad - I was under the impression Mad Dog had stopped making all non-metallic knives.

And all I meant to sayw as that WT doesnt currently make non-metallics, or doesnt seem to. Non-met folders from him seem to be rarer than hens teeth.

The Busse never struck me as functional from a people poking aspect, which is all I see non-metallic knives as being good for (ceramics excluded). Those big serrations are just asking to hang up on clothing, IMO.

Obsidian *would* work, but in the process of a fight, the stresses on the blade could very well cause it to snap, or at least break along the edge, because it gets very very thin when flaked, think cutting on a molecular level (literally). Grinding it can be done, but its still too brittle to make a great knife (and SUCKS to grind.)
 
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