non-stainless steel in the kitchen...

S

SkaerE

Joined
Sep 9, 2001
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i want to make some O1 kitchen knives... (i know its probably not IDEAL, but hey...)

should i even try or will it rust too easily?

ive heard that a lot of chefs keep high carbon blades for their use. how do they keep them from rusting? its not like you can really oil a blade you are using on food...or can you (is there special cutlery oil for food knives?) suppose animal fat? but wouldnt it get rancid?

ive also heard that limes may help prevent corrosion on O1 and give it a greyer look?

thanks
 
Jegetable oil is what the japanese use. Yes it goes bad, but you just have to just keep up with the maintenance.

Just clean it real well with hot water and soap, the hot water drys quickly and keep it oiled. Dont stick it in a dishwasher or a sink. If it begins to spot rust just oil it, steel wool the rust off, then oil it again. (At least that is how I do it.)

You can maintain a relatively nice finish this way. I have some knives made of 5160 that have a nice patina after a year in the kitchen, they just need constant maintenance.
 
My limited experience: No matter how flat you get the grind O1 will spot the very first time you wash it. Oil it all you want, its been a waste of oil here. The more you wash it the more consistant it will look; good (better). It is, in my very limited opinion, not my choice for household kitchen use. Great edge holder though! I do like O1. I have had my best edge retent. results with double heat treat.

Roger
 
I don`t think you will have a problem as long as you do as samurai Dave says, wash and oil with veggie oil.
personally I don`t even oil my hunting knives, and I have very little to no problems with rusting.
I use mainly O-1, and Ive skinned deer, beavers, all kinds of animals then without even wiping it off, I`ve put the knife back in the sheath and left it there for over a month. I have then pulled the knife out wiped off, washed and wiped dry. No rusting just a nice blueish grey color to the blade, which can be removed on the buffing wheel in about a minute.
In fact I cleaned some chickens this afternoon, and haven`t wiped down the blade...it sits in the sheath right now...if you want I can post results. ( picture now, and a picture in 6 or 7 days after a wipe and wash).

try it out for yourself...it can`t hurt!
 
Would gun bluing O-1 help keep corrosion at bay? If it's gonna patina anyway why not just speed up the process and be done with it by gun bluing the blade?
I've not yet worked with O-1 so I really don't know how a gun blue will work on it. It was just a thought as I read the thread.


All the best,
Mike U.
 
Wait a minute and I'll blue a piece.

Rl

Real pretty, real quick; Perma Blue. Can't say how it will wear but so what. The wash black will make up the difference.

RL
 
Now that's service! Thanks Roger!
O-1 has been one of those steels I've been meaning to give a try, but it seems when it comes time to get more steel I find my mouth saying 1084, 440-c and 5160 please!
Guess when I trot out to Sheffield's again I should pick some up. When you HT do you do a full 2x2 on O-1?
Thanks again!


All the best,
Mike U.
 
Mike,

I can only guess at what you mean by 2 X 2. Is it the HT's? I said earlier, somewhere here, that the best results with O1 was when I double HT'ed it. That is very true. What had really happened is that I had done a HT. That very evening, I was told by Tim Zowada how to HT O1. Shocked at knowing I had not done it that way to begin with, I re-did it. I have HT'ed O1 as told by him since but with only one HT before tempering. None hold the edge that the first does. Being a oil quench you should know that there will be more decarorization if HT'ed twice (since you should not foil wrap oil quench steel). Be sure you have a bit more thickness to grind after HT. I got away with mine but it was not because of design, it was because of luck and a darn good $49.95 1X30 grinder.:confused:.

As far as the blueing goes: I thought I grabbed the Oxpha-Blue. I did not. I grabbed the cheap stuff instead. I think the Oxpha would do better (Brownells).

Hey Mike, I've got a 'Charter Member Vast Right Wing Conspiracy' mug. I too am proud and God Bless George W. Bush and his.

Roger
 
Roger,
Sorry about the confusion on the 2x2 question.
I was curious whether you double HT'd then followed by a double temper. I'm always looking for HT methods other knifemakers are using especially when they get results they are most happy with. It sure helps shorten the learning curve that way.:D
Thanks again!


All the best,
Mike U.
 
Mike,

I never have done less than two tempers. I strive now for three and that does not include a snap temper right after HT. Do not ever allow the steel to cool below 125 F but let it cool to at least 145 F. before temper, especially with tool steels. A snap temper is good, say about 50 F. BELOW the normal temper (some super steels require a lot less than 50 below - say 200 for some) but for about the same amount of time as a 'full' or 'regular' temper. A snap temper should be performed before a cryo too but only snap then cryo before a full temper. You can snap and then wait til tommorow to do the other tempers but do not HT and wait til tommorow before a temper, snap or otherwise. The grain will become course as it cools below the magic mark and shorten the steel life.

Also, remember this: You can not temper for too long a period. You can only temper for too short a period. If specs say temper for two hours at such a temp you can leave it all day at that 'such a temp'; no problem. If you go short on time you may have problems. Always consider temper times as absolute minimums and exceed those times where possible.

Snap is good and advisable before cryo and regardless of that is also good for stress relief.

Roger
 
Originally posted by rlinger

Hey Mike, I've got a 'Charter Member Vast Right Wing Conspiracy' mug. I too am proud and God Bless George W. Bush and his.

Roger [/B]
Click to expand...

We don't mind that the rest of you folks are borrowing our governor for a while...:D

C Wilkins
 
Borrow my ass. We ain't given him back!:)

By the way - thanks for raisen one up like that.
He's got the Libs chasing their own tail. I love that god fearing honest from his heart man with all my being. God bless him, his and his teachers and our Vise President equally.

Roger
 
Most chefs will tell you that SS is required in the kitchen by the health department. 'Taint so! So says a retired health department inspector.
I like Harley's idea of "coloring" ie. staining, non-SS before giving to the user. I didn't have the cat urine he recomended so I used a lemon. After worming the blade just rub the blade with a slice of lemon. The warming seem to help, for some reason.
A gun 'toten liberal, Lynn
 
I was thinking to blue a carbon steel knife I intend to use for eating, but I never did it as blueing solutions are posionous.
Won't particles of steel from a blued knife be poisonous as well?
I know, the question is pretty dumb and dummylike, but, well... :D
 
God Bless George W.! It seems he does have the poor widdle wiberals chasing their tails a bit doesn't he?:D I hear Al Gore isn't even gonna try to challenge him come next election time. Al's smarter than I gave him credit for.:)

Roger,
Your tips on tempering times are good news to me. I've gotten into the habit of going over recommended tempering times quite frequently lately. Too many irons in the fire usually and I'm easily distracted to boot. If the Bucs or the Noles, Gators, Canes or Dolphins are playing, or the better half has something that needs doing, a routine temper can easily go over by an hour or more.
BTW, where'd you get your mug? I need one of those for work. The liberals in my office will have even more reasons to love me. :D


Alarion,
I've been using gun blued knives in the kitchen for a couple of years now with no ill effects. Then again, the bugs dissappeared from the kitchen after I left a couple of dirty knives out overnight a while back and I haven't seen any since.:eek: Hmmm....
 
"You can snap and then wait til tommorow to do the other tempers but do not HT and wait til tommorow before a temper, snap or otherwise. The grain will become course as it cools below the magic mark and shorten the steel life."

Actually, I believe the grain remains exactly the same. Rather, it is the untempered martensite that makes the knife brittle, and prone to warpage.

John
 
if veggie oil go's even a little off it can MAKE YOU **** LIKE A DUCK!i have good results with parrafin or bees wax on carbon steels. it will still patina, thats why i prefer to use quality S.S.another hint i give people is to wash carbon blades and the pass over a flame on the stove a couple of times to make sure its dry before you put it away.
 
First of all, carbon steel knives have been used for a long time in the kitchen before the advent of stainless steel ones. I have some rather old carbon steel knives that I still use with no problems what so ever. They have developed a nice patina over the years, but I think that it only adds character. For new knives, I would recomend that you give them a fine polish. The finer the finish, the less chance there will be for rust to grab hold and start doing it's damage. As far as oiling the blade is concerned, I would recomend peanut oil. As far as I know, it will not turn rancid as easily as other oils and is safe to ingest.
 
To stop rust in it's tracks just etch with Ferric
Chloride. I have customers that I built fishing knives
for, used ferric chloride to etch, this was 10 years ago
and no rust yet. Now these guys are fishermen, every
day during the season. I have had Kitchen knives that
were etched, no rust. Try it you will like it.
Gib
 
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