Non Stainless Steel knives?

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Other Doc

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Any production knives that don't use some form of stainless steel? I get this question a lot and want to have a better answer and more confidence when replying. Anyone have anything?
 
Spyderco Gayle Bradley uses CPM M4
The Benchmade Contego also uses CPM M4
The ZT 0770CFM4 is the same.
THe Benchmade 710 is in D2 and the 710-3 is in CPM M4


What criteria are you looking for
 
Other Doc said:
Any production knives that don't use some form of stainless steel? I get this question a lot and want to have a better answer and more confidence when replying. Anyone have anything?
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Any kind of free chromium and I believe nickel to some extent will give stainless properties. There are not really any stainless steels, truthfully. Just differing levels until you get to some metals like titanium and even they can corrode in the right environment. It's all relative until you define what stainless means. If you're talking about the generally accepted definition of 12% or more chromium in the mix then you can find several steels that aren't stainless in folding knives. M4 was already mentioned. 3V is available. Cruwear is floating around. Spyderco just announced they're going to make a sprint run in 52100, that's about as non-stainless as you can get. D2, depending on the exact composition of the melt could either be just over the line on either side of being considered stainless. C100 is available. Aogami (blue) super is out there. 1095 is common. You could also talk to a knife maker and have them use any kind of steel available. Edit: I assumed you were talking about folding knives. If you're talking about fixed blade knives, too, then the no to low stainless options are pretty vast.
 
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In general, steel is either carbon steel or it's stainless.
There are degrees of in-between steels too, like D2. Other "tool steel" types might be considered "in-between" as well; I'm not an expert on those.

I suspect that 1095 is the most common carbon steel used in knifemaking. A search for 1095 on any store's website should come back with ample choices. Case's carbon steel is "CV", which is 1095 with extra chrome and vanadium added; Camillus used the term "Carbon V" for their similar steel.

There are thousands of carbon steel (and in-between) knives on the market. Old Hickory kitchen knives come to mind, many Scandinavian knife brands have carbon or stainless options, ESEE, certain Solingen Boker pocketknives, many from Great Eastern Cutlery, etc., etc., etc.
The most common and well-known carbon steel knives are the original USA-made Old Timer knives from the Imperial-Schrade cutlery (the new Chinese imports are stainless).
 
I looked up the steels listed by Sunyata and they all have chromium and at least one has nickel as well. I believe that my understanding of and explanations of high carbon steel was fairly close, but now better understand and can explain it better. Thank you so much for the lessons.
 
Look for 1095, a lot of Schrade knives use this as well as KaBar. 1095 is sure to rust to your hearts content.
 
Other Doc said:
I looked up the steels listed by Sunyata and they all have chromium and at least one has nickel as well. I believe that my understanding of and explanations of high carbon steel was fairly close, but now better understand and can explain it better. Thank you so much for the lessons.
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Most steels have at least some chromium even if it's meant more to form wear resistant carbides than to provide a level of corrosion resistance. Whether it bonds with the carbon or not is what determines whether it helps prevent corrosion or staining.

Are you more interested in folding or fixed blade knives? The low to no corrosion resistant steels are fairly rare in folders unless you're talking about traditional folding knives. When you're talking about fixed blades guys can suggest a lot of different good steels to look at and learn about. But basically stick to anything less than 12% chromium to get steels considered non-stainless. But there are caveats. You can get a knife with 8% chromium that stains less than a knife with 15%. There are a lot of factors in play and it starts getting real scientific real quick. Once you get to that point you need to talk to guys who are more familiar with metallurgy than most.
 
Small amounts of chrome like found in non stainless alloys like 52100 or 1095CV, or O-1 are there for other purposes that have nothing to do with stain resistance or carbides. It helps in the hardening ( shallow vs. deep hardening) and isn't really noticeable to us, the knife user. It won't affect how it resists corrosion, how it resists abrasive wear or anything else.

It needs to be in much higher amounts to make carbides or resist corrosion. There are better elements than chrome for carbides. Sometimes like in cooking stew or soup ingredients are there because they do what's needed cheaper than other ingredients. Other times it's exactly the right ingredient needed for the job. It all depends on what is needed .
 
The Mastiff said:
Small amounts of chrome like found in non stainless alloys like 52100 or 1095CV, or O-1 are there for other purposes that have nothing to do with stain resistance or carbides. It helps in the hardening ( shallow vs. deep hardening) and isn't really noticeable to us, the knife user. It won't affect how it resists corrosion, how it resists abrasive wear or anything else.

It needs to be in much higher amounts to make carbides or resist corrosion. There are better elements than chrome for carbides. Sometimes like in cooking stew or soup ingredients are there because they do what's needed cheaper than other ingredients. Other times it's exactly the right ingredient needed for the job. It all depends on what is needed .
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Thanks again all.
 
Spyderco, Great Eastern, Canal Street, Boker, Case, Queen, Knives of Alaska, and many others make knives with blades of non-stainless steels.
 
For a steel to be considered SS is must have at least 12-14% Chromium.....

The closer a steel is to that number, the better is will behave in terms of rust resistance, however without the full benefits of being a true stainless. As an example, S30V has 14% Chromium.

Example: 3V has 7.5% Chromium
M4 has 4% Chromium
D2 is at 11% so just barely not considered a SS.

52100 has 1.5% (true HC steel)

Right now (and there are signs that there will be some more HC steels in production folders soon)
M4/3V/D2 are your most available options, and that's not saying much....there isn't a ton of knives in those steels to choose from, unless you are going to more traditional folders....then there will be lot's of HC options.
 
JR88FAN said:
For a steel to be considered SS is must have at least 12-14% Chromium.....

The closer a steel is to that number, the better is will behave in terms of rust resistance, however without the full benefits of being a true stainless. As an example, S30V has 14% Chromium.

Example: 3V has 7.5% Chromium
M4 has 4% Chromium
D2 is at 11% so just barely not considered a SS.

52100 has 1.5% (true HC steel)

Right now (and there are signs that there will be some more HC steels in production folders soon)
M4/3V/D2 are your most available options, and that's not saying much....there isn't a ton of knives in those steels to choose from, unless you are going to more traditional folders....then there will be lot's of HC options.
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M4 has been getting some love but still not very common. Which sucks as it's a great steel.
 
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