Noob second post: biting the bullet to hand sharpen

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bdaabat

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Jul 2, 2025
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Noob second post.

I'd recently started down the path of figuring out how best to use the Edge Pro Apex. I'm recently retired and now have the time to do things that I didn't make time for previously. The initial purpose for wanting sharp knives is solely because I enjoy cooking. And, cooking isn't a lot of fun when you have dull knives. But, it's become something more than that.

I got the EPA ~ 10 years ago because I didn't think that I'd ever be able to have the time to develop the skill to hand sharpen or the time to be able to get knives sharp rapidly just using my hands and stones. At the time, this was absolutely the case! I was working full time, plus serving as a Scout leader for my sons Boy Scout Troop, along with all of the other time pressures in life.

Now, I'm questioning that assumption. Or rather, conditions have changed. I now have the time to devote to pursuing knife sharpening. But, it's not just that I have the time. Part of it is my interest in learning new skills. I used to get challenges of learning new things at work. Now that work is done, I am looking for other outlets for skill building. This seems like a worthwhile and practical set of skills to know.

Over the past several days, I've binged YouTube knife sharpening videos. One of the things that really pushed me down the path of hand sharpening were videos showing the speed with which one who is skilled at manually sharpening can get an excellent edge. That potential efficiency combined with my desire to learn a new skill prompted me to bite the bullet and purchase a "stone": the Sharpal 162N

Starting down the path of learning any new skill frankly SUCKS! It requires being really bad at that skill for a while.

I'm embracing the suck.

In order to jump start the process, I checked with the current Scout leader to see if it would be OK for me to grab the knives from the adult chuck box to sharpen. The next Scout outing is at the end of July and happens to be summer camp (meaning, they likely won't need the knives until the September outing). He was thrilled!

Here's what I got:


There are a wide range of blades here from different manufacturers and different eras. Seems like a great way to get started!

Step one-get them clean (or at least, MUCH cleaner!).



Unfortunately, it appears that some of the knives were put away while still wet and have started rusting. It happens. Used some steel wool to take off the top layers of dirt and rust.

Worked on sharpening these for a couple hours yesterday just using the 162N. They're sharper than they were, but still not where I think they can be. And, there were three knives that I just couldn't get sharp. One of those challenging three was a very inexpensive knife that was quite long, very thin, and super bendy.

I'm going to continue to work on them for the next several days while working on building the technique. We'll see how it goes!

if all else fails and I decide the squeeze isn't worth the juice, I'll get them sorted using the EPA.

Bruce
 
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Nothing wrong with learning new skills. You're one step ahead of me. I don't enjoy freehand sharpening, so I stick with sharpening systems.
 
I can't tell what all of the knives in your picture are, but most mass production kitchen knives will be made with a softer stainless steel that can be difficult to get a real crisp edge on. Don't get too frustrated. I've seen people give up because the softer stainless steel used on cheaper kitchen cutlery can be more trouble to sharpen than if you'd step up to a slightly better quality blade.

Also a lot of mass marketed kitchen knives are thicker behind the edge to keep from getting damage when people misuse them or toss them in a sink or diswasher so they will never cut like a good quality kitchen knife unless you thin behind the edge some.

If you're getting user sharp you may want to a slightly better quality steel and heat treat and you may find your edges will get crisper easier than with cheap steel. Something like VG-10 isn't real expensive and is a good step up that sharpens well and fairly easily.

Having the ability to hand sharpen definitely gives you a lot of flexibility and to me is worth the effort to learn.
 
For the bendy knife, you'll have to do it in sections, keeping a thumb on the side, so the bendiness doesn't mess up your angle to the apex.

For most of the knives in your picture, plan on spending about 60-80% of your time deburring, using edge-leading strokes at decreasing pressure, alternating sides with each stroke, until the burr is small and weak enough to get off with a strop (cardboard or denim work well).
 
Careful of the link to a vendor that does not support BladeForums .
The moderator is being really nice to you but don't push your luck.

Yep that is a 325 stone . . .
I'll say it again with EMPHASIS :
some of those ?dull? knives you are going at freehand are going to require / DEMAND a coarser stone . . . 220 . . . maybe a MUCH more coarse stone 60 .

Diamond stones tend to be aggressive but don't expect miracles .

The """"""SECRET""""""" to getting sharp edges on dullish knives in a resonable period of time is FREEKING COARSE STONES .
You can always refine the edge with the finer stones once you get an edge / bur .

Also many of those knives may be inexpensive stainless steel (known to by "gummy" and hard to debur ).
The best stone for those is what they call an India stone . Is redish orange . Is a little on the soft side. Has sharper grit because it is capable of "wearing" away (called Friable ) and so is kind of self conditioning / constantly exposing new sharp abrasive .

India stone is a MUST HAVE for sharpening and deburing cheep stainless steel knives .
 
Good advice from those that have put in the hours, key points;
keep the bevel angle equal when you go from one side to the other
stay at it until you have actually reached the apex, a work light comes in handy for that, hold the knife so you are looking down at just the bevel's reflection of the light and then rotate the blade up and down to see if you can spot any additional 'facets' of the edge. As the saying in the movie "Galaxy Quest" says 'Never give up, Never surrender!" ;) basically just keep with it until you actually reached the apex it's too easy to figure you are close enough and move on to the next finer grit stone, big mistake as then it takes far longer and you might never reach the apex.

And as some have mentioned those softer steel blades can be tougher to sharpen as the steel being soft will smear rather than shear off on the stone, a harder heat treated blade tends to sharpen 'easier' than those lower grade steels. A steeper angle might help in those situations...maybe.

Myself, I like having the stone at or about the level of my elbows while seated so I am not hunched over or having to keep my arms up too high to do the sharpening. at that natural junction of the elbow it, to me, feels easier to control the blade better during the sharpening process.

I use one of those generic stone holders and I drilled a small hole on each side and put a wood screw in each side so I can raise and lower it as a reference point.

Untitled by GaryWGraley, on Flickr

and you can measure from the top of the screw down to the sharpening stone surface to set the height of the screw so they are the same on each side. I took what is a wood marking tool and modified it to use for this purpose instead of trying to measure with a ruler

Untitled by GaryWGraley, on Flickr

Untitled by GaryWGraley, on Flickr

and as you progress through various stones, that setting reference can be placed on top of each stone and you screw the screw higher or lower depending on how much of a difference the next stone's thickness is, so you will have the same bevel angle.

Good luck with all those knives!
G2
 
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The first rule of freehand sharpening is keep a consistent angle.
The second rule of freehand sharpening is keep a consistent angle.
The third rule of freehand sharpening is keep a consistent angle.
There are a bunch of other rules after that. But it's not easy until you work at it, and nothing else really matters much if you don't get that right. I've been trying for a long time . . .
 
Wowbagger said:
Careful of the link to a vendor that does not support BladeForums .
The moderator is being really nice to you but don't push your luck.

Yep that is a 325 stone . . .
I'll say it again with EMPHASIS :
some of those ?dull? knives you are going at freehand are going to require / DEMAND a coarser stone . . . 220 . . . maybe a MUCH more coarse stone 60 .

Diamond stones tend to be aggressive but don't expect miracles .

The """"""SECRET""""""" to getting sharp edges on dullish knives in a resonable period of time is FREEKING COARSE STONES .
You can always refine the edge with the finer stones once you get an edge / bur .

Also many of those knives may be inexpensive stainless steel (known to by "gummy" and hard to debur ).
The best stone for those is what they call an India stone . Is redish orange . Is a little on the soft side. Has sharper grit because it is capable of "wearing" away (called Friable ) and so is kind of self conditioning / constantly exposing new sharp abrasive .

India stone is a MUST HAVE for sharpening and deburing cheep stainless steel knives .
Click to expand...
Holy schniekies! My apologies to the mods! I didn't realize that providing an outside link from a non supporting vendor was an issue.

I was providing a link simply to share the specific product that I'd acquired. Will watch my posts in the future.
 
BTW: Thank you all for the replies! I appreciate it!

I've gotta say, I still suck at the free hand sharpening. But, I believe I suck less than I did three days ago. So, there's that. :cool:

Not only is building a new skill pretty cool (even though I'm still at the sucky stage). It's something helpful for me in a bunch of ways.
1. I enjoy being of service. I've not only learned the basics well enough (at least, with the Edge Pro Apex) to sharpen my own knives, but last weekend I sharpened my sister in laws knives. She was thrilled! Unfortunately, her knives were a mess. They are much less of a mess than they were! I understand that the Scout knives are mainly low quality knives. But, I'm going to get them as sharp as I can. Maybe the first outing post sharpening will be appreciated by those attending!
2. Learning new skills is important. And, learning a bunch of new skills is really cool! Prior to a couple weeks ago, I didn't know anything. I still don't know much, but it's more than before.
3. Overcoming one's own self-imposed limitations is something important. I'd previously avoided going down the path of hand sharpening because I told myself that I couldn't. I didn't even try! It turns out, it seems doable. Like any skill, it takes time to practice and time to learn. I'm glad I started. And, I appreciate the support!

BTW: Part of the reason for grabbing the knives from the Scout troop was intended as a challenge. I'm interested in learning this skill. That means practice. And, to get better, I feel like I need to get challenged. Being able to sharpen a range of different types of knives seemed like a great place to start that would allow me an opportunity to practice and build skills.

I'm fortunate to have the connection with the Scout troop. I don't know for sure, but I'd expect a number of folks on this forum might have connections to a Scout troop as well. It might be something to suggest to other folks just starting out as a way of building skills and (hopefully) helping the troop out.

Thanks!
Bruce
 
Already a lot of good advice given here.

For what it's worth, I think I see a couple of Victorinox / Forschner knives in your collection there. Those should have nice thin factory grinds in quality steel and will richly reward good technique with a great slicing edge. They're perfect for learning. With the diamond hone specifically, keep the grinding pressure light to minimize heavy burring issues. And in the refining steps, even lighter. I'd also strongly suggest lubricating the hone for steels like these, which can sometimes clog the surface in a galling-like fashion if used dry. That can be one of the most frustrating issues with relatively 'soft' ductile steels found in mainstream kitchen knives. If you notice the surface of the hone starting to feel slick and not removing much, if any steel, that's a sign the surface is getting clogged. Keeping the surface wetted will reduce the tendency of the swarf to cling to the surface so tenaciously.
 
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@ Obsessed with Edges: Good eye! Those are knives I donated to the troop during my tenure. It was sort of enlightened self interest. The other knives were truly awful.

At this point, I don't know what I don't know. What I can share is that my experience with these knives (and several of the others) is that they are taking a reasonably good edge despite my inexperience.

RE: gumming up. When this has happened, I've just brushed off the stone with a rag when I see/feel more material starting to impact the process. Once the surface stuff gets brushed away, feels to me like things are working properly again. Do you think this stone needs a liquid? From the other things I've seen, it sounded like a liquid wasn't needed???

If one were to use a liquid, would it be just water or water + some dish detergent? Or, something else?

Bruce
 
bdaabat said:
@ Obsessed with Edges: Good eye! Those are knives I donated to the troop during my tenure. It was sort of enlightened self interest. The other knives were truly awful.

At this point, I don't know what I don't know. What I can share is that my experience with these knives (and several of the others) is that they are taking a reasonably good edge despite my inexperience.

RE: gumming up. When this has happened, I've just brushed off the stone with a rag when I see/feel more material starting to impact the process. Once the surface stuff gets brushed away, feels to me like things are working properly again. Do you think this stone needs a liquid? From the other things I've seen, it sounded like a liquid wasn't needed???

If one were to use a liquid, would it be just water or water + some dish detergent? Or, something else?

Bruce
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Some stainless steels are worse than others in that clinging effect on the hone. And I also think some plated diamond hones might be more prone to it. If you've not yet seen evidence of clogging in your uses, then you might be OK. I had some issues with severely clogged diamond hones back when I was using a Lansky guided rig. The coarser diamond hones were especially troublesome for that and needed some heavy scrubbing to clean them up. So, since then, I've avoided doing any heavy grinding work without keeping them wetted. Depending on how humid or arid your environment may be, if water doesn't evaporate quickly, you'll probably be OK with that, or with some liquid dish soap & water. I use mineral oil on my diamond hones because of the arid environment I live in, in the desert southwest. Anything water-based evaporates too quickly from the surface of the hone. The oil also makes it very easy to wipe the swarf away with a microfiber towel periodically.
 
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I have found WD-40 to work very well for the purpose of lubricating diamond files & hones.
Next to keeping the abrasive surface clean & cutting it also protects both the diamonds themselves as well as the newly forming apex from overheating.

For me this is useful when sharpening larger blades, certain machetes & swords clamped on workbench or table, which keeps the blades straight and also allows two-handed operation.
Working like this can be fast enough to noticeably heat up a dry diamond file or hone.
 
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fishface5 said:
The first rule of freehand sharpening is keep a consistent angle.
The second rule of freehand sharpening is keep a consistent angle.
The third rule of freehand sharpening is keep a consistent angle.
There are a bunch of other rules after that. But it's not easy until you work at it, and nothing else really matters much if you don't get that right. I've been trying for a long time . . .
Click to expand...
Somebody should come up with some kind of apparatus to make it easy to do that . . . .
hmmmmmmm . . ..

((((that's a joke son)))))
It's why I say ; If you aren't using an Edge Pro you are just playing around . Playing around is fun .
HOWEVER , seriously accurate metal machining (which is what sharpening is ) to take cuts that are consistent to a fraction of a degree takes seriously well calibrated and robust / rigid machine tools (not squishy human hands wielding a file , hacksaw (or sharpening stone ) slap dashing away , one eye closed with one's tung sticking out the side of ones mouth ).
 
kwackster said:
can . . .noticeably heat up a dry diamond file or hone.
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One of the stones I use in my Edge Pro is a "ruby stone" (it is red / seems to be made from the same thing as rubies) .
It is very coarse , 60 grit !
I mention it because it doesn't like water ; gets too soft (and I hate using oil ) so I use it dry .
Nearly every stroke it makes a spark here or there (super tiny) , especially if I touch the plunge grind : SPARK !
Yep there's some heat there !
 
Well to be fair, plenty of people better than me are able to achieve some great edges freehand within reasonable time. But most cannot bc it's not nearly as easy as it seems like it should be. I regularly put mediocre edges on friend's kitchen cutlery and they regard it as arcane wizardry.

Side note - for people who are used to knives with atrocious edges, if you get their knives sharp they inevitably cut themselves, so I always warn them in advance.
 
fishface5 said:
Well to be fair, plenty of people better than me are able to achieve some great edges freehand within reasonable time. But most cannot bc it's not nearly as easy as it seems like it should be. I regularly put mediocre edges on friend's kitchen cutlery and they regard it as arcane wizardry.
Click to expand...
A lot of normal people think that there are exactly two sharpness possibilities: dull and sharp.

If you made them a great edge, they would discover that there is a third: Ooh, that's too sharp.
 
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