Noob sharpening help w/Lansky

[Elliott365]

Hello Blade Forums!

I recently decided to try and sharpen my kitchen knives. I came across Project Farms video on YouTube where he compared different sharpening systems and I decided to purchase a Lansky. I thought that as a newb a guided system would be easiest to start with.

After reading some reviews, I realized that Lansky had changed manufacturers from US to Asia and I decided to buy a used USA made kit off of eBay.

The kit I got is only the 3 stone and did not come with honing oil.

I have a variety of old but nice kitchen knives from Wüsthof and Chicago Cutlery. I decided to start with the Chicago Cutlery knives and I only tried to sharpen 3 of them.

The results I got are quite poor; yes the knives are sharper but they are no where near a new blade edge.

I also experienced chipping of the blade edge. Especially on the large chef’s knife model (42S).

I sharpened the 42S in the 25 degree slot.
The 61S in the 20 degree slot (best result of the three but still not perfect).
And the 71S in the 17 degree slot.

Any advice on what I am doing wrong?
Do I need honing oil?
Is the Lansky the wrong tool for this job?

Any advice is greatly appreciated, I am new to this and can use all the guidance I can get.

Thank you!

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Lots of possibilities, for things going on.

Most important is, (1) did you verify you sharpened to a burr along the full length of the cutting edge? That ALWAYS needs to be done, before anything can be refined. If a burr isn't formed with the first stone used (the coarsest), then anything that follows probably won't help.

Also, (2) the edges on those Chicago Cutlery knives look like they might be the original factory edges, which might be pretty 'thick'. I say this, because in our house, we've been using a set a lot like that for many years - an old walnut-handled Chicago Cutlery stainless set from the 1980s or so. In order to make ours cut well, I reprofiled to narrower edge geometry (30° inclusive or less) first. Had to remove a good bit of steel from the factory edges, before they started performing well. I experimented with a few things over time, in getting them there, and finally found the right solution in an 8" Norton Fine India stone, to set and refine the edges. I've continued to use that stone to maintain the edges on these knives.

And (3), with the used Lansky kit - the stones may or may not be working at their best. I've also used an old Lansky set (1990s vintage or older), and I know the standard stones in that kit had a tendency to clog and/or glaze very quickly - especially if they weren't used with any lubrication (oil or water, at least). So the stones may be making things a little more challenging, depending on how 'used' they were when you bought the kit. And (4) the small size of the Lansky hones also means anything you do with them will likely take some time - especially if you're trying to remove a lot of steel from large blades like these.

But by far, the most important thing is verifying you can raise a full-length burr along the cutting edge with the first stone you use in the sequence. If that isn't done first, nothing that follows is going to matter much.

 

[UncleBoots]

Very interesting question. Hard to answer perfectly, but let's see...

1) Be more gentle. Chips are not a usual result of sharpening with a guided sharpener, but I got them early on, when I was using way too much pressure.

2) If you are accepting the fixed angles of a guided sharpener that does not adjust, be VERY patient. You are regrinding the bevel, and you should make sure you're done. It could take a while. If it cuts paper readily, then you have an apex.

3) I don't know what stones you're using there, but you will want water or oil for lubrication, and to clear swarf (ground-off metal). I've only ever used one type of stone that doesn't need that, and they're individually more expensive than the Lansky (metallic-bonded diamond or CBN).

 

[Elliott365]

Lots of possibilities, for things going on.

Most important is, (1) did you verify you sharpened to a burr along the full length of the cutting edge?

Thank you for taking the time to write me such a detailed explanation!
While I did not know to check for a burr, I believe that I did form a burr. I made quite a few passes with the coarse stone before proceeding, probably 10 or so.
This may be a mistake but I did course on each side, followed by medium on each side and then fine on each side. Rather than sharpening one side to completion before proceeding, I flipped the blade between each stone.

In order to make ours cut well, I reprofiled to narrower edge geometry (30° inclusive or less) first.

Does this need to be done on a belt sander?

And (3), with the used Lansky kit - the stones may or may not be working at their best.

This might be the problem, the stones look relatively new, but they were dirty and the edges of the stones do have some small nicks in them. I think that these issues were greatly exacerbated by the fact that I didn’t use any oil or water.

 

[thebrain]

Use the search function here to look up tips on using the Lansky system there are many threads over the years. There is no "real" reason to use oil or water but it can help glazing or clogging of the surface of the stone. It looks like your stones need to be cleaned many use comet or barkeeper's friend and a plastic scrub brush. The marker trick is essential to making sure you get a good edge, you color the edge of the blade so you can easily see the work being done by the stone. There are some good videos on YouTube also.

 

[Elliott365]

1) Be more gentle.

Thank you for your really helpful advice!
I probably was putting too much pressure, this combined with the lack of lubrication is probably causing my troubles.

2) If you are accepting the fixed angles

This is a big concern of mine, the lansky is pretty limited in this regard. Will I ruin my Wusthof knives? I read online that Wusthof chefs knives come with a 14 degree angle and the lansky only goes down to 17.

3) I don't know what stones you're using there, but you will want water or oil for lubrication,

I think this is probably the biggest issue and the best place for me to start.
I had read and Amazon review that recommended to use the system dry so I didn’t bother buying the honing oil but I should probably order some before trying it again. Is there a big difference between using oil or water? I have even seen some posts recommend soapy water?

 

[Elliott365]

T

Use the search function here to look up tips on using the Lansky system there are many threads over the years. There is no "real" reason to use oil or water but it can help glazing or clogging of the surface of the stone. It looks like your stones need to be cleaned many use comet or barkeeper's friend and a plastic scrub brush. The marker trick is essential to making sure you get a good edge, you color the edge of the blade so you can easily see the work being done by the stone. There are some good videos on YouTube also.

Thank you.
I know the worst thing you can do on a forum is join and ask a question that has been answered 1000 times. So please forgive me. I will try to do some more reading before posting again.
I will clean the stones as you recommended and will try to use the marker method next time.

 

[Boattale]

1. Yes, use oil. Motor oil, gun oil, 3 in 1, any oil is fine.
2. Use the coarse stone with medium pressure until the knife is sharp. Probably 80% of your work should be on the coarse stone. You'll be able to tell when it's sharp by dragging a fingernail on the length of the edge. A sharp blade will have a noticeable drag and cutting feel on the nail. Dull spots will slip.
3. Then use the medium and fine stones to refine the edge. As you polish your edge the nail deal will still tell you where you are.

A Lansky used properly will get a knife sharp enough to be used as a scalpel. Good luck.itit

Edit: I sharpen all my knives to 20 degrees per side. No wondering that way about what angle on what knife. That edge is a great worker and stands up well.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

(1) Thank you for taking the time to write me such a detailed explanation!
While I did not know to check for a burr, I believe that I did form a burr. I made quite a few passes with the coarse stone before proceeding, probably 10 or so.
This may be a mistake but I did course on each side, followed by medium on each side and then fine on each side. Rather than sharpening one side to completion before proceeding, I flipped the blade between each stone.


(2) Does this need to be done on a belt sander?


(3) This might be the problem, the stones look relatively new, but they were dirty and the edges of the stones do have some small nicks in them. I think that these issues were greatly exacerbated by the fact that I didn’t use any oil or water.

(1) The burr should be verified it's there, instead of assumed. When the edge gets thin enough by sharpening, a narrow portion of it will become weak - it'll fold away from pressure exerted by the stone. That's the burr. When that happens, if you carefully feel the edge on each side, you'll notice some drag against your fingertip on the side to which the burr is folded or leaning. You can lightly drag your fingertip down the side of the blade, away from the spine and toward the edge, and you'll feel the burr sort of catching the skin of your fingertip on the side to which the burr leans. Doing the same from the other side, you won't feel the burr catching against your skin at the edge. Feeling that on one side, and not on the other side, is proof of the burr's existence. Once you can prove it's there, that's the time to begin refining the edge. Lightly sharpen from the side to which the burr leans - the goal being to 'flip' the burr in the opposite direction, causing it to lean the other way. At the same time, lighten the pressure with the stone, so some of the burr will be abraded away as you 'flip' it to the other side. As you flip the burr side-to-side this way, while decreasing pressure exerted by the stone, the burr will gradually get smaller and smaller, and the edge will become noticeably sharper as you do this. It's ideal to do as much of this as you can with the first stone used, before moving to a finer stone. But some of this can also be done with the finer stones, using them at progressively lighter pressure.

(2) Thinning the edge doesn't have to be done on a belt sander. And for the time being, it's more important to focus on the burr as explained above. You can still thin the edge progressively over time and with subsequent resharpenings by taking the sharpening angle a little bit lower each time. Doesn't have to be done all at once - it's just something that'll improve how the edge cuts in the longer run. For now, just making sure the edge is fully apexed, by proving the existence of the burr, will make an immediate, obvious improvement in sharpness. That's what you're aiming for right now.

(3) I would strongly recommend lubricating the stones. I prefer oil for these hones (and it's recommended by Lansky for them). But just make sure to keep the surface of the stone adequately wetted - whether it's done with oil or water. That'll keep them working better for longer. These small hones will clog very quickly if used dry for anything but the lightest of resharpening tasks.

 

[Spats McGee]

My caveat is that I'm still a pretty new sharpener. That said, I'll offer this: (1) Clean the stones to be sure they're able to do their job. (2) Use less pressure, go slowly, and let the stones do the work. (3) Get some kid of lubricant. Depending on the stone, some folks use water, some use soapy water, some use mineral oil, some have their own concoction that they make up. For those, I'd just use some mineral oil. (Again, newbie sharpener here, so take my advice at your own risk).

As far as ruining the knives, no, I don't think you've ruined them. Could the edges be nicer? Sure, but you can still make them nicer, too. All is not lost.

 

[jjg6319]

Take a sharpie marker and color the edge. When you sharpen you should be removing the sharpie at the edge. If not, then it is hard to raise a burr and move to the next stone. I started with a Lansky and it takes some time to get used to it.

 

[RLB0414]

If the knife will be used in food preparation use a food grade oil or thoroughly wash after sharpening. I tried cooking oil since the knives were for kitchen use but cooking oil will go rancid on the stones if not properly cleaned.
I found that periodic cleaning of the stones greatly improves cutting ability. Did not matter if or what type of oil was used. I cleaned using dawn dish soap and dish rag.
You mentioned 10 passes in one post. I have spent over an hour changing the bevel. Even using the 25 degree slot on a buck knife that supposedly come from factory at 25 degrees it generally takes me more than 10 passes.
Over the course of time, I have found the Lanky does not always balance, the edge. By this I mean the same number of passes on one side does not give you the same angle as on the other. One trick is use a sharpie style marker on the edge of original bevel before sharpening. This allows you to see progress.
Beware of the clamp jaws. I have a newer model and the clamp jaws are garbage. The slot for the knife is not cast evenly on each jaw so the angles are not true and the blade is not held tightly. Hopefully your model is cast properly.

 

[toker]

2) If you are accepting the fixed angles of a guided sharpener that does not adjust, be VERY patient. You are regrinding the bevel, and you should make sure you're done. It could take a while. If it cuts paper readily, then you have an apex.

This is great advice. One of the problems that you're running into is that the fixed angles of the sharpener are not matching the factory angles. Mark the edge with a Sharpie and see if one of the fixed angles is close to the factory angle. If none of them are, you need to reprofile the blade angle. The standard Lansky stones are not great at that and will take a long time to set the initial angle.

 

[c7m2p3]

Second and Third the sharpie method.

With a Lansky in particular, you are forced to use a specific angle for sharpening and if your blade does not already have a secondary bevel that is matching one of those preset angles, you are either going to be too aggressive or too shallow in your angle. My suggestion would be as follows:

Coat the secondary bevel in sharpie (I prefer a COLORED sharpie since it is differently colored than dark gray/black metal shavings)

Set the Lansky to 20 degrees (should be just okay for kitchen applications I prefer mine a bit steeper but this will be fine to start)

Then do a few passes along the entire length of the blade. My assumption is that you are not going to see the sharpie removed which means you will need to do a full reprofile of the edge to make it match 20 degrees. It will take some time but not too much time since the steel you are working with it not all that wear resistant. Check in on the edge every once and a while with a new sharpie application, zooming in on the edge with your phone camera, or even better a jewlers loupe if you have one handy or in a sewing kit.

Once you get all the way to the apex of the edge with your coarsest stone you should be able to feel the other side of the edge (the one you werent grinding on) and feel the burr. Im sure you have been reading other sharpening tutorials but should feel like a small hook. I just run my finger nail down the knife and if the edge catches it that means there is a burr there.

Flip the knife over and repeat. Then do the same through the stone progression and make sure to De burr the blade after. Stropping is good and cheap for this but if you dont have one of those just try and lightly cut into soft wood and pull through that will do fairly well on this type of soft steel. Good luck