Normal Newbie Questions

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Sicarius

Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Messages
27
Hello Everyone,

I have long toyed with the idea of throwing (knives and hawks) but I have only made serious plans recently. Since I am relatively youngish, money is a rather important factor. I am looking for a nice bang for my buck. ATC looks like a great company, and Two Hawks has mad rave reviews. However, this having been said, they are still out of my price range (by a wee bit). I browsed through the throwing and hawk forums and saw many many questions on CS 'hawks and throwers...what is the general consensus? They are low in price (30 for a hawk) (15 for a knife) and seem to flaunt their supposed quality. Is this quality a myth? Anyway, I am not tunnel visioned on CS only...if there is a better company and a better hawk for a <100 price range, and better cheap throwers too, just tell me. I am interested in your input (on CS quality, good starting throwers...both axes and knives.) Thank you so much. Good karma for helping out a newbie ;-)

Sic.
 
Don't worry ,we've all been where you are right now! Welcome aboard! Cold Steel or any of the cheap forgings from India or Pakistan are great for starting out. You will get experience at fixing handle problems, because that's what you'll have with these products. But, that's ok, it gives you experience, it helps you learn, and above all, it lets you find out if this is something that you want to invest more time, energy and of course, money in. There are many places to find these cheaper 'hawks and throwing knives. Bud-K has some, Atlanta Cutlery has some and I'm going from memory here and could be missing something, but, a good source for period stuff that are inexpensive is J.Townsend & co.(this is where I could use some help,I've ordered from them, but I could be butchering the name) Have fun, you are better off not spending too much to get started. I'll bet you will be hooked though, We all have been bitten by this bug, and it's not a bad thing. Mike
 
If you are just starting, DO NOT spend a large amount of money on a throwing hawk! You may discover that you don't have the time and determination to spend enough practice to get really good, will be disappointed, and the expensive hawk will end up splitting kindling and cutting tent stakes like it was supposed to when it was invented.
At Rendezvous you can get a large number of rough forged head hawks for less than $30 and good forged H&B hawks for less than $50 which may look really rough but they work.
Smoother cast-head hawks can be obtained from mail order suppliers like Track of the Wolf (if you really want to do nothing but throw I would recommend the Octagon made by Allan Foundry which they sell for about $35 to $40).
When you get good at it contact me for precision tools. They are a bit more expensive, but so is Snap-On compared to K-Mart.
Best regards,
TWO HAWKS
http://www.2hawks.net
 
www.hbforge.com As Two Hawks said, these are not finely finished like his, but they are sturdy and fine for learning to throw. Nice folks too. I prefer them over the CS stuff.

Welcome aboard and come back whenever you can!
 
My deepest thanks for the replies, guys. It now looks to be a decision between HB and ColdSteel. I notice that HB's hawks are much heavier...hmmm. Well, not having tested the hawks, I must rely on your personal experience. Dances prefers HB...any votes for CS? Can I get a comparison? My new hawk will most likely be one of these brands. Which one depends greatly on the advice of my wise elders here. Thanks again for the replies, and after this last question I will not bug you any more! (Except for in a couple weeks when I ask "why wont my hawk stick!?)

Thankee,
Sic.
 
Go with HB. Im hardly an elder, butt... while these two are roughly comparable in price and quality, I think HB has them beat in a couple of small things. First, HB guarantees the head for life. HB are hand forged (to an extent...not completely from what I have been told). BUTT, those things matter to me. I like the "feel" of a weapon/tool that has been created (at least in part) by a human bieng. Like they leave their spirit and personality on/in it-- tough to explain, although I am CERTAIN others have experienced this as well. Cold steel feels to... well... cold for me. They just look machined. The head fit is better than most CS hawks Ive handled, as well. BUTT, let us know when you decide, were curious as to all that. Kinda like asking what knives everyone else carries. Best of luck, thanks for the + Karma (I think I need it :D ). NW
 
Gee, here I was all prepared to offer some advice. Then I see that "elder" crack and, well... just kidding. ;) Welcome to BF & soon to wonderful world of hawks.

I have handled & thrown both CS & H&B. IMO, H&B is a far superior product. In addition to nicer overall aesthetics, it will basically be ready to go right out of the box with both a properly fitted head & a sharp edge. On the other hand, the head on the CS will have to fitted -- not an easy matter to get right -- and the edge will likely need to be first thinned & then sharpened.

I believe that the weights listed on H&B's site are shipping weights, not hawk weights, and have been rounded up to the next highest pound. From what I remember, there was not a whole lot of weight difference between a H&B Seneca & a CS Plainsman (discontinued CS model that falls between the Rifleman & Norse hawk in size & weight). If anything, I seem to remember the CS being a little bit heavier. If weight is a real concern, you might want to consider one of H&B's smaller hawks. FWIW, I find it easier to throw lighter hawks for an extended period of time anyway.
 
Welcome to the forum. Speaking from experience, get the H&B. The CS hawks are crap, a waste of money. It took me all of 10 minutes reading and 5 minutes throwing to get my H&B to stick 2/3 of the time. Another 20 minutes and it was near 100%. I never got my CS Norse hawk to stick. Ever. I only paid $12 for mine and I still want my money back. Go with H&B. Oh and don't throw your elbow out, it really hurts. :D
If you don't see what you want on their site, don't worry. Will is willing to custom make pretty much anything you want. And not make you dip into your college fund.
 
The CS tomhawks have a lot of problems as mentioned in the above, however when you are starting out throwing they are actually pretty good because you are going to be knocking handles off then anyway, and doing a fair bit of edge damage when missing the target. So its nice to be able to just bang the heads back on in a hurry and just grind the damage out quickly with a file. You can also try some odd throws, methods and distances without any concern for the consequences. Once you get decent you can then get a solid tomahawk with a much better edge geometry and more solid handle attachment. The Rogers Rangers version from ATC is a huge upgrade to the CS versions. Much more expensive, but easily worth the money.

-Cliff
 
I would agree with everyone else and say get an H&B over CS. I have both and the H&B wins hands down. H&B hawks are a great deal for the money and they are great people to buy a hawk from. I never had a problem with getting my CS hawk to stick it just wasn't an accurate thrower.

Ryan
 
Wow, I never expected such a quick and helpful response. A HB hawk will be in my possession in a few weeks :) I will continue to lurk about the forum and learn as much as I can. Thank you again! Cya around ;)

Sicarius.
 
If you want a lightweight hawk, H & B has a smaller one (I think it's called the squaw). One of my martial arts training partners is well under five feet and weighs around 70 pounds. He's pretty strong, but the smaller/lighter hawk worked better for his size. It would also be a handy weight for trail carry (and it's a pretty cute little guy).
 
Sicarius - you made the right decision. I normally like anything made by Cold Steel but that does not extend to their tomahawks. At one point I stocked their "Plainsman" and "Rifleman" hawks because some customers wanted a hawk that was heavy enough to carry in a wheelbarrow (which I do NOT make) but it was always a challenge to clean up their cutting edge and try to fit handles to the non standard eye size and profile.
H&B has been forging good quality traditional hawk heads for a LOT of years and most handle blank manufacturers have a standard "H&B EYE" size for replacement handles. They make a good quality head and I have never seen one with a layer separation or a split eye from a poor hammer weld. These guys know what they are doing and the prices are normally very reasonable for a very stout rough-looking hawk to beat up while you are practicing ... and even to keep as a field tool for many many years just as the guys in 1700 did with very similar hawks.
TWO HAWKS
http://www.2hawks.net
 
I have a pair of the CS Hawks. They suck. No edge from the factory, poor handle fitting, a real bother to get sharp. They were cheap, but no bargain.
 
I have to reply to this one.

As most of you know, I am no stranger to the game of 'hawk'chuckin'. I have thrown a decent amount of 'hawks. After you rework the edge, the CS hawks are awesome. I have PERFECT accuracy and they will take a serious beating! The head fit is really not a problem. I have handled at least 10 CS hawks right out of the box and all of the heads would fit on just fine after forcing the head up the shaft 4 or 5 times. And like Cliff said, They are VERY inexpensive and you can treat them like $hit and they will take it. It really makes a big diference when you are not "afraid" to try things with your 'hawk. for throwing, I recommend the CS Frontier hawk only. The Norse hawk SUCKS!
 
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