Northeners and Canucks, need sleeping bag help

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Walt-FL

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My neighbor and I are planning on going up to Montana in April. What kind of sleeping bag would you recommend? Since I'm probably only going to use it once or twice a lower priced bag would be perfect? Anybody have experience with the Army cold weather sleeping bag or Gore Tex covers? I only own an OD jungle hammock and a British army tropical SAS sleeping bag, both are worthless up there.
 
My first recommendation for a sleeping bag, isn't a sleeping bag at all. It's a foam mat, the blue WallyWorld ones or green Army-type ones are fine.
Your first requirement is to get something between you and that cold, cold ground. Not to mention it lessens the soreness in your back. Don't overlook the value of a thick layer of DRY leaves or even small pine boughs for insulation under you. That hammock might help to, people who use hammocks always seem to still recommend a pad under you.

Others will have more ideas on specific high-quality bags, I just use a $40 one rated to 0 degreesF (probably actually good to about 40 degrees, you know how advertising is). BUT, I also bring a poncho liner and/or fleece blanket for extra warmth, use natural materials for a bottom layer, and have been known to sleep almost fully dressed if it's real cold. Layers, man, that's the key... and don't put yourself in the equivalent of a plastic bag, if it doesn't breathe you will end up wet and even colder!
 
I have two canadain Forces winter bags. Have gone down to -40 in the Baffin.
hard to find..Sportsman Guide had em for under 100.00. Now sold out. Worth looking for.

Many of these are built by Woods Canada and all are insulated with down (Duck I think) It's a two bag system with attached wool/nylon hood. Lofts pretty well and in a tent when I was younger I survived many nights at -40 in mine.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=247309
 
Depends if you're going to be sleeping out in a tent or under a tarp, or in a cabin. In any event you need good insulation underneath; a Thermarest type of inflatable mattress is great; foam is OK but bulkier. The bag should be rated for the temperatures you expect; adding a silk or flannel sheet will add a few degrees of range. Body types differ a lot; one person will freeze in the same bag that another will find comfortable. don't plan on sleeping fully dressed -- your clothes will accumulate moisture and you will end up being a lot colder. Wear polypropylene type long johns and top, synthetic socks and a lightweight toque. Synthetic insulation is as good as down these days and will retain insulating qualities even when damp, but is bulkier (and cheaper). Down is great but needs to be looked after, and won't keep you as warm if it gets wet. The type of bag depends on if you're going to carry it or not; mummy bags are better for backpacking but are somewhat constricting if you're not used to them (and also don't zip together). Check out REI.
 
I mentioned sleeping almost fully dressed.... Alberta Ed is 100% right to warn about sweat build-up making you colder. Polypro and wool both stay warm even wet (wool gets HEAVY, though), cotton is a BIG no-no, it really doesn't belong in the boonies unless you have a heated cabin to go back to every couple hours. A poly-fleece watch cap goes a long, long way to keeping you warm, too. IMHO a good hat and clean dry socks are almost more important than a good warm jacket.

By the way, something I haven't seen mentioned around here, leather sucks for warmth. Once it gets cold, it stays that way, in my experience.
 
With adequate insulation from the ground (as mentioned previously), 2-3 good wool blankets can make for a very effective bedroll, and can later be used individually.
 
Thanks for all the input. I do have an inflatable mattress and silk thermo underwear, actually, it is BMW motorcycle underwear. I'm going to look into that Canadian winter bag also.
 
I am a big fan of Thermarest.
In fact, I am typing from one with the chair converter right now!!!

As far as cold weather bags, have you looked into the Marmot Never Summer?
 
The Thermorest-type pads are more comfortable and available in thicknesses up to 3" last I looked. More thickness=more insulation and comfort.

The U.S. Army has specs for minimum total thickness of bag(s) (top and bottom) at given temps:

40F - 3.00"
30F - 3.50"
20F - 4.00"
10F - 4.50"
0 F - 5.00"
-10F- 5.50"
-20F- 6.00"
-30F- 6.50"

Shake out bag(s) and allow them to rest on the floor for ten minutes before measuring thickness.

These numbers assume: 1) you have at least a 1/2" foam pad under you; 2) you are an average young person; 3) you are in good health; 4) you are well-fed and well-hydrated; and 5) you are in a tent.

You would probably want to all more insulation (bag thickness or clothing) for comfort.

You might want to have a margin for error in the form of dry clothing or extra blanket/quilt. A good night's sleep is pretty important for an enjoyable outing.

If you are planning for temps lower than you will typically encounter, consider combining bags. A budget 40F bag added to a "three-season" (15-20F) bag is a pretty thick sandwich.

If you are combining bags for cold temps and they do not have hoods, a blanket and watch cap can correct that deficiency.

The advantage of the more premium fills (Polarguiard 3D; Quallofil, etc.) is that they are thicker for a given weight of fill and are treated to resist matting and so keep their loft through more time compressed in a stuff sack. (Bags should be stored in a non-compressed state.)

If you are in a tent, Gore-tex adds only expense IMO.

Military bags work according to their thickness. Surplus bags have often lost considerable loft. Most available mil surp bags are relatively heavy for their thickness (being built for abuse).
 
I have a cold weather camping book that has a table similiar to the one above, but it goes like this.

2"-50F
4"-40F
6"-20F
7"-0F

And slightly more for colder temps w/ the emphasis being on more of the insulation being above you and your pad being below you. I have a 15F Marmot bag that has 5" of loft, which appears to match the table in the book. As far as a cheap bag, I have a $50 20F bag, and the Marmot has 3 times the loft, packs to 1/3 the size, and weighs about 1/3 less. Campmor has some good deals on the bags in my opinion. My cheap bag will pretty much fill up my pack by itself, the Marmot leaves room for other things.:)
 
I got a -40c bag from Le Baron up here for about 120CDN. It's syntheic, so it rolls up HUGE, but it's cheap and warm. Or if you have a decent cool weather one, I would just double it up with either another bag/ warm fleece blanket.
 
As Alberta Ed mentioned, a little more info on where you plan to sleep would be helpful. April night temps in MT could vary wildly, depending on elevation and if a cold front is in the area. There could also be a lot of snow on the ground. I would think at the minimum you'd want a 20deg bag, and probably one rated lower....if I was going out in April I'd most likely take my -5 bag.

If you have to carry it, or space is at a premium, I would pass on the military bag. They're heavy and take up a lot of space. I also don't think they do a very good job of keeping you warm....and that's based on experience.

I prefer a down bag, although a synthetic one will last longer and require less maintenance. REIoutlet and Sierra Trading are some good places to look for deals. You might look at Wiggy's bags, they aren't too bad for the price.

Just remember that your life may depend on the bag you choose.
 
I got sythic beacuse down bags are out of my price range, but they compress down a lot smaller and weight slightly less.
 
your sleeping bag is your life boat, make sure you have adequate plus some for the north west. i have been out in wyoming in the late season and you need a lot of insulation. if you get in trouble you need to find your bag adequate enough to allow you to wait it out. i also take a inner bag outer bag combo some times as it is easier to adjust your temperature if you have two bags, bulky yes but i dont back pack in. the mat is very important i have used the thermarest and would reccomend them highly. good piece of gear. i bought a coleman peak 1 -30 degree mummy bag from campmor it has held up well for the past 10 years, alaska and late wyoming hunts i have never woken up cold even at -20 or lower.

alex

alex
 
Blackhills, while you are correct that a synthetic bag will require less maintenance, a down bag, if properly cared for, will last a very good deal longer than synthetics, and loose very little significant loft.
Synthetics lose a good percentage of their loft very quickly, and within a year or two of brand new, will lose up to a double digit degree value.

Synthetic's great attrubute is that it loses very little loft when wet, whereas down becomes completely useless. A down bag will always compress much smaller than an equivilant synthetic bag, and is much lighter.

Any Cal & Thomas Linton, thanks for the useful cold/loft charts. Cool!
 
Any Cal, your source is not in conflict with mine but merely specifying to a different result.

Thomas Linton said:
. . .
The U.S. Army has specs for minimum total thickness of bag(s) (top and bottom) at given temps: [emphasis added]

40F - 3.00"
30F - 3.50"
20F - 4.00"
10F - 4.50"
0 F - 5.00"
-10F- 5.50"
-20F- 6.00"
-30F- 6.50"
. . .
These numbers assume: 1) you have at least a 1/2" foam pad under you; 2) you are an average young person; 3) you are in good health; 4) you are well-fed and well-hydrated; and 5) you are in a tent.

You would probably want to all more insulation (bag thickness or clothing) for comfort.
. . .[emphasis in original]
Click to expand...

Maybe I should have underlined.

LOSS OF LOFT

I used to be involved in selling sleeping bags -- all man-made fills. In every case where a customer expressed unhappiness with loss of loft, they had been stroring the bag in a stuff sack, contrary to our written and oral instructions on bag care (store in uncompressed state). Sleeping bag fills, like most plastics, will "coldform" if left compressed for extended periods. (Think of folding a nylon spatula under a pile of books and leaving it there for two months, as opposed to a day.) Even down will lose some (but less) loft if left tightly compressed for extended periods.

I have twenty-year-old Slumberjack Quallofill-filled bags that have lost <5% of the loft they measured when I first bought them (at a monster discount :) ).

YMMV.
 
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