Norton econo stone review Vid

HeavyHanded

HeavyHanded

Joined
Jun 4, 2010
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Alright, this isn't really a review so much as me sharing how I currently do some basic sharpening and a few ramblings. Feel free to comment. The first two go together, the third I threw in as an afterthought.

After seeing some of the recent videos, I thought I'd share some humble pie with Mag - yummm, tastes better than my foot anyway...

Also, pretty noisy at the shop today and I had to break this vid up, not sure exactly how well the second follows the first - should be pretty close.

Thanks for watching:)

[video=youtube;9s8334LgzDU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s8334LgzDU&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
[video=youtube;03VXUEC5j-w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03VXUEC5j-w&feature=player_detailpage[/video]




[video=youtube;apLoiggAlA8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apLoiggAlA8&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
 
Thanks for the vids, we have a similar style and I hate chasing burr's as well. I bought one of these stones when I first got into sharpening, I haven't used it much since I've gotten more knowledge and quality sharpening gear but you make me want to break it out just for kicks :thumbup:
 
awestib said:
Awesome video, thanks for sharing Martin !!
Click to expand...

Glad to finally do one! You can only describe how you do things so much, but a video is worth a whole lotta talk.
FWIW, this is the pretty much how I use my waterstones too, only the strop gets replaced by a polishing stone, and I don't have to spend anywhere near the amount of time eliminating the burr. For workhorse tools like machetes I'll generally do just like the video and use more pressure with the black compound, followed up with some white or yellow. The edge becomes a bit smooth, but since its unlikely I'll be drawcutting with a machete I don't miss the teeth and it seems to make the edge hold up better with hard chopping.

Thanks for watching - I always felt most sharpening videos were too long but its tough to do it much faster.
 
:thumbup: Excellent videos HeavyHanded. Resulted utility edges from 2nd and 3rd video are clean with good bite & consistent, just as I expected from you :D

I was at HD 2 hrs ago, got some diablo belts and grabbed this norton stone to try. I'll use the stone to sharpen my endura, finish on end-grain paper strop, to see if it's possible to cross slice(push if lucky) newsprint.

If I throw a humble-pie straight up in the air while looking up, will gravity cease to exists:o
 
Good effort. You mean you don't have to use a gazillion grit stone to end up with a sharp knife? Not possible, atleast thats what is said... DM
 
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I noticed you use much more oil than I do. You work the blade more on the edge or near side not so much center of the stone and work it both ways.? The knife had no choil and was not hollow ground more flat ground. That looked to be a 2x6" stone. I think your method looked odd to me just watching you do it. It was just different than what I do thats all.As long as the end produce is sound . Interesting and Good. DM
 
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I sharpened Endura vg-10 using this Norton Economy combo SiC stone, it worked very well. Now, I fully understand why HH highly recommend this stone.

Instead of honing oil, I used skin lotion - feel great on hand. Set a new bevel with the Coarse side was quick. The fine side refine the edge very fast, then sadly chasing burr for the next 15 minutes. Doh! I didn't clean the stone, loose abrasives at this size (220 grit) won't deburr well. With a clean edge, it can cross slice and diagonal push cut newsprint.

After stropped 20strokes/side on end-grain paper strop, it's now easily cross push cut newsprint - wow!

Ok, after another 20strokes/side strop, it struggles cross push cut.
 
David Martin said:
I noticed you use much more oil than I do. You work the blade more on the edge or near side not so much center of the stone and work it both ways.? The knife had no choil and was not hollow ground more flat ground. That looked to be a 2x6" stone. I think your method looked odd to me just watching you do it. It was just different than what I do thats all.As long as the end produce is sound . Interesting and Good. DM
Click to expand...

It has a flat grind with a primary bevel set at about 28 degrees. I make a point of working the ends more so the stone doesn't dish. If it feels like its getting low on the ends I'll use the center more but since they usually dish in the center, I try to only use it for finishing.

I use mineral oil so I can get a bot more oil on the stone without it running away - any thicker and it impedes grinding, any thinner and it runs off the stone too fast. I also find a slightly thicker oil does a much better job of floating debris off the surface - night and day compared to a really thin oil or soapy water.

My style looks a bit odd to me too. Was running the video at fast forward to break it in half and it looks like I'm just holding the knife stationary like I'm using a belt sander. Came to this by watching Murray Carter and from my experimenting with circular grinding - I can't hold a bevel nearly as well if I use longer strokes.

Thanks for watching!
 
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bluntcut said:
I sharpened Endura vg-10 using this Norton Economy combo SiC stone, it worked very well. Now, I fully understand why HH highly recommend this stone.

Instead of honing oil, I used skin lotion - feel great on hand. Set a new bevel with the Coarse side was quick. The fine side refine the edge very fast, then sadly chasing burr for the next 15 minutes. Doh! I didn't clean the stone, loose abrasives at this size (220 grit) won't deburr well. With a clean edge, it can cross slice and diagonal push cut newsprint.

After stropped 20strokes/side on end-grain paper strop, it's now easily cross push cut newsprint - wow!

Ok, after another 20strokes/side strop, it struggles cross push cut.
Click to expand...


I use my silicon carbide stone the way Murray Carter uses his 1k waterstone - restoring bevels and quickly setting a fresh apex. Normally I refine further and later today I'll be putting up one more video that shows how I use the hardwood board for this. For me, the longest part of a job is this stage - unlike some, I tend to speed up considerably once I set the bevel and refine it to this level. I generally use the 8" stone, but wanted to show some of the lurkers or newbies that even simple tools can get a great edge - save them some of the $ I blew when started out thinking I needed better and better stones. For me the silicone carbide stone is the perfect tool for preliminary edge work (and final edge work in some cases). I love diamond plates, India stone, JWS etc but the silicon carbide is most simple and effective. Like a kettlebell or an AK - simple, effective, and reasonably versatile.

Are you using compound with your endgrain strop?

I find doing too much loaded stropping on an edge refined to a fairly coarse edge such as this will degrade fast if polished beyond a certain point - possibly due to the initial width of the apex. Once the highs and lows are removed the apex is too broad for good efficiency - though can make for a very tough and fast edge on a chopper. As mentioned, for this application I prefer to strop on paper over a stone - thins the apex somewhat as it goes.
 
Here's the final installment, the image is a bit shaky but the clip is fairly short. Was a bit too close for the camera settings but wanted to get as tight as possible. I'm using some compound on wood to bring the edge up a notch - winds up being comparable to what I get from a 4k King JWS.

Thanks for watching!

[video=youtube;bl5Hkr_eLXk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl5Hkr_eLXk[/video]
 
HeavyHanded said:
I use my silicon carbide stone the way Murray Carter uses his 1k waterstone - restoring bevels and quickly setting a fresh apex. Normally I refine further and later today I'll be putting up one more video that shows how I use the hardwood board for this. For me, the longest part of a job is this stage - unlike some, I tend to speed up considerably once I set the bevel and refine it to this level. I generally use the 8" stone, but wanted to show some of the lurkers or newbies that even simple tools can get a great edge - save them some of the $ I blew when started out thinking I needed better and better stones. For me the silicone carbide stone is the perfect tool for preliminary edge work (and final edge work in some cases). I love diamond plates, India stone, JWS etc but the silicon carbide is most simple and effective. Like a kettlebell or an AK - simple, effective, and reasonably versatile.

Are you using compound with your endgrain strop?

I find doing too much loaded stropping on an edge refined to a fairly coarse edge such as this will degrade fast if polished beyond a certain point - possibly due to the initial width of the apex. Once the highs and lows are removed the apex is too broad for good efficiency - though can make for a very tough and fast edge on a chopper. As mentioned, for this application I prefer to strop on paper over a stone - thins the apex somewhat as it goes.
Click to expand...
I charged my endgrain strop with white-compound (~15um abrasive, prob AlOx). I found stropping on newspaper loaded with compound (CrO, diamond,cbn, sic, ao) worked well on carbon steels but produced nasty burr/wire on high alloy knives: vg-10, d2, zdp-189, etc..

I agree, stropped past refinement stage is actually defeating the objective edge.
 
HeavyHanded said:
Here's the final installment, the image is a bit shaky but the clip is fairly short. Was a bit too close for the camera settings but wanted to get as tight as possible. I'm using some compound on wood to bring the edge up a notch - winds up being comparable to what I get from a 4k King JWS.

Thanks for watching!
Click to expand...

I noticed the bevel of ~1cm knife tip is narrowing, which reflects your sharpening movement where the tip-belly bevel received mostly parrallel/lateral abrasion. There are pros & cons on this extra strong tip. Your thoughts?
 
bluntcut said:
I noticed the bevel of ~1cm knife tip is narrowing, which reflects your sharpening movement where the tip-belly bevel received mostly parrallel/lateral abrasion. There are pros & cons on this extra strong tip. Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

It must be a trick of the light and the angle of the camera. The bevel width at the tip actually becomes a touch wider than the heel and belly. Also, I can't readily illustrate this, but the grind path relative to the cutting edge along the tip and belly are very nearly equal to that of the heel, perhaps a touch lower - this particular example has a lot of belly. I'd have to take a micrograph, none of the cameras around the house can show that level of detail clearly. It does become a bit steeper right at the tip but not as much as you'd think. Generally speaking, the only time I use lateral/parallel abrasion intentionally is when using a file on a machete or axe. Draw-filing can get the smoothest grind from a given file, but to date I'm not a fan of using it with a stone.
 
bluntcut said:
I charged my endgrain strop with white-compound (~15um abrasive, prob AlOx). I found stropping on newspaper loaded with compound (CrO, diamond,cbn, sic, ao) worked well on carbon steels but produced nasty burr/wire on high alloy knives: vg-10, d2, zdp-189, etc..

I agree, stropped past refinement stage is actually defeating the objective edge.
Click to expand...

One other thought - you might wish to clean the endgrain strop off - I used the coarse side of, wait for it, a coarse silicon carbide stone - just scrubbed it real good, used the corner a bit as well. Sharpen as per your usual on the fine side of the econo stone and then use only the plain endgrain strop. I got fantastic results using this method. The knife I'm currently EDCing was done on an oak board as above, only using black compound (winds up about half again as refined as the fine econo stone edge - comparable to my 1200 King) and stropped on the naked endgrain strop - its been holding up very well. I'd have used the endgrain strop on the videos, but wanted my actions to be readily duplicated if someone chose to do so.
 
HeavyHanded said:
One other thought - you might wish to clean the endgrain strop off - I used the coarse side of, wait for it, a coarse silicon carbide stone - just scrubbed it real good, used the corner a bit as well. Sharpen as per your usual on the fine side of the econo stone and then use only the plain endgrain strop. I got fantastic results using this method. The knife I'm currently EDCing was done on an oak board as above, only using black compound (winds up about half again as refined as the fine econo stone edge - comparable to my 1200 King) and stropped on the naked endgrain strop - its been holding up very well. I'd have used the endgrain strop on the videos, but wanted my actions to be readily duplicated if someone chose to do so.
Click to expand...

I scraped the endgrain with a saw blade and then use this stone coarse side to worked up a velvety fuzz surface.

The endura vg10 sharpened at ~26*inclusive using fine side of the stone. The edge is not 100% burr free off the stone but will diagonal slice newsprint with a couple catches. Stropped on engrain in various ways, slice newsprint alot quieter however still brief pause at a couple places.

Used dmt EE (diafold) to filed the burr off, so it slices newsprint diagonally cleanly but won't crosscut newsprint. Stropped on endgrain, this time the resulting edge smoothly cross slice and diagonal pushcut newsprint.

For a SAK & Opinel carbon, stropped on the bare endgrain yielded fantastic results. So people, for $6 stone + endgrain paper strop, you can get most knives pretty darn sharp.

About using skin lotion instead of honing oil - swarf & loose abrasives can easily clean up + no more black hands, however soft hands may hurt tough guy image :rolleyes:

HeavyHanded - good job for coming up with endgrain paper strop:thumbup:
 
Good job. Much different than the method I used on my wooden strop. This could be a clue why I didn't get the same results. Nor do I plan on using that method, the waterstone method. I may work some more at it. I could almost hear several of the posters here take a deep gasp of air when watching your video, saying, O, may, see he's sawing to cut the paper. However, your not at all, its more of a equal push cut with some movement. Still, its very sharp and many here don't understand this level is even possible coming off a mere 280 grit stone. So, perhaps hard to swallow. DM
 
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