Norton India Stone - First Impressions and Review (video)

Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
2,090
So, I went out and bought the famous (infamous?) Norton Combination India Stone--a combination coarse/fine Aluminum Oxide oil stone--and a bottle of Lansky honing oil. Here on BF, the Norton stones are mentioned occasionally as a cheap alternative to the more exotic bench stone offerings. The total cost of this setup was $20 for the combination stone + $4 for the bottle of oil = $24. In comparison, my combination DMT duosharp stones push $200 a piece, and my two Arashiyama water stones with a synthetic and natural chalk Nagura cost me about $170 in total.

As always, advice, suggestions, and tips welcome. I am always looking to improve.


[youtube]JAM1Q90dQ80[/youtube]
 
Use Kerosene with a little motor oil mixed in for as good a honing oil as you can get on that India stone

With it, and a good strop you can produce a hair popping edge. If you add a finer grit finishing stone - Translucent hard Arkansas or white ceramic (always finishing on the strop with green compound), you will be able to produce VERY good edges.

Make sure you work at getting a consistent angle on the stones, (no steeper than about 15 degrees unless you are only cleaning horses hooves, or removing gaskets or something) and work one side of the blade until you get a burr (wire edge) all the way along the side of the blade on the side not contacting the stone. Then repeat, including the wire edge on the other side. Do it all again on the finer stone. Then take some light strokes on alternate sides until you can't feel any wire edge.

Finally strop at the same angle that you sharpened at. Give it quite a few strokes on one side - at least 50 - with a fair amout of pressure. Do not flip the knife at the end of each stroke. If you do, you will anticipate the flip and wind up dragging the edge at far to steep an angle and rub the edge off. If you absolutely have to flip the knife, flip it backwards over the spine. Anyway after 50 or so strokes on one side, do the other side. Enjoy!
 
Here's a review I did a while back on the same stone.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...dia-stone-review-w-pics?highlight=india+stone

My opinion is that a bit of loaded stropping will really clean the edge up after the stone work. And, I absolutely prefer oil-based lube (mineral oil) over soapy water, but any fluid will greatly increase feedback and prevent loading or glazing of the stone. They cut a bit slower than the Crystalon (SiC) stone but leave a finer edge due to the differences between AlumOx and silicon carbide particles.

I did not watch the video - at 52min that's more time than I have - but will try to take a look later this week.
 
The knife looks to be Buck's model 181 if an ATS-34 blade or the model 182 a 420-HC blade. That stone should give it a good edge in 15min.. Plus, that model should sharpen faster having no belly to work. DM
 
Last edited:
Hey, HeavyHanded. :)

Your write-up on sharpening here (not the OP, the 8th comment): http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...advice-for-newbie-knife-sharpeners-(freehand) is one of the best treatises I ever read on sharpening. I know my vid is long, but take a look when you get a free moment and feel free to critique or give feedback if you want to as your opinion is valuable to me.

Yeah, my sharpening vids are way too long (knifenut brought this up, too), so for my next project (and hopefully all future sharpening vids), I plan to keep it under 20.
 
Last edited:
The knife looks to be Buck's model 181 if an ATS-34 blade or the model 183 a 420-HC blade. That stone should give it a good edge in 15min.. Plus, that model should sharpen faster having no belly to work. DM

Buck 186 Odyssey in 420HC. It's not 52 minutes of sharpening. A lot of it is me discussing the stone and process and talking about using the oil stones for the first time. But I plan to make my next video less than 20 minutes in total (sharpening, discussion, and all). :)
 
I have a Norton Sic stone and have similar thoughts, it cuts quickly but leaves a very coarse and un-refined edge that needs lots of stropping to be sharp on my terms. When you remove the oil it will load too quickly and not be effective at sharpening. With oil it produces a ton of black oil swarf and not much better of a edge. Very messy.

It's level of coarsness at finish requires more effort than necessary to start a cut and forcing a knife to cut is not something I like to do.

Overall I feel you would be better off with a coarse DMT as it cuts cleaner and leaves a consistently sharper edge.
 
I have a Norton Sic stone and have similar thoughts, it cuts quickly but leaves a very coarse and un-refined edge that needs lots of stropping to be sharp on my terms. When you remove the oil it will load too quickly and not be effective at sharpening. With oil it produces a ton of black oil swarf and not much better of a edge. Very messy.

It's level of coarsness at finish requires more effort than necessary to start a cut and forcing a knife to cut is not something I like to do.

Overall I feel you would be better off with a coarse DMT as it cuts cleaner and leaves a consistently sharper edge.

My conclusions exactly!
 
Yes, any of the Odyssey's should be a snap to sharpen espically on a Norton SiC or India stone as their easy design. Yes, straight off the SiC stone may be too coarse for some. I strop it some an find it fits my taste fine. I'm beginning to not care for stropping because of its maladies so, I take the blade to the fine India or coarse diamond and after a few strokes it comes off very sharp. Plus, removes the burr and gives me the edge longevity I really like with economy. A great stopping point for me. Different tastes for different folks and the oil clean up to me is small. DM
 
Last edited:
I love my Norton Crystolon. I use water and liquid soap. I use it like a water stone. I do spend a little bit more time on the strop but not much.
 
I have a Norton Sic stone and have similar thoughts, it cuts quickly but leaves a very coarse and un-refined edge that needs lots of stropping to be sharp on my terms. When you remove the oil it will load too quickly and not be effective at sharpening. With oil it produces a ton of black oil swarf and not much better of a edge. Very messy.

It's level of coarsness at finish requires more effort than necessary to start a cut and forcing a knife to cut is not something I like to do.

Overall I feel you would be better off with a coarse DMT as it cuts cleaner and leaves a consistently sharper edge.


I love my Norton Crystolon. I use water and liquid soap. I use it like a water stone. I do spend a little bit more time on the strop but not much.

The Crystalon is now my all time favorite. As fast as a waterstone yet more convenient, whips up a good EDU edge in very short order, and has great feedback for free-handing. I collect the oil (mineral oil) and swarf/abrasive debris and wipe it on newspaper for a strop and this edge is very capable. I agree it crosscuts newspaper with a bit more noise than I like to hear but it can get it done, and with a light touch and a quick strop on newspaper its impressive what this stone can accomplish. IMHO it produces a more burr free edge than any comparable grit stone (whatever that might mean...), even among my waterstones. I've taken to using it as a primary stone for "working" knives and follow with a variety of methods to get a more refined edge if needed.

I also add a few drops of Juniper oil to my mineral oil - smells almost like a gin martini - very relaxing:)

I have been taking a closer look at my India stone as its never really been a work-horse for me. Going to put it through its paces for a few and see what I learn...
 
I really like mine as well - it's a real workhorse of a stone. Yes, it can really give good economy while serving up a nice edge in short order. I look forward to reading your India stone exercise. DM
 
Hey, HeavyHanded. :)

Your write-up on sharpening here (not the OP, the 8th comment): http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...advice-for-newbie-knife-sharpeners-(freehand) is one of the best treatises I ever read on sharpening. I know my vid is long, but take a look when you get a free moment and feel free to critique or give feedback if you want to as your opinion is valuable to me.

Yeah, my sharpening vids are way too long (knifenut brought this up, too), so for my next project (and hopefully all future sharpening vids), I plan to keep it under 20.

First off, thanks for doing the video, and the good words re my older write-up. You're coming along well, appear to be developing good control. I am not entirely comfortable critiquing - I cannot tell from a video how much pressure you're using or what kind of touch you have on the apex, but here are some observations...

Your technique looks very sound with the same comments I made last video -consider segmenting the blade more (how would you tackle a large chef's knife or a 16" machete with a sweeping technique?- give it a try and see what parts of your tech hold up and what parts need tweeking). Inspect frequently - once you've ground a burr and flipped it, keep close tabs on what's happening. Don't rely on a formula. If you're off a bit on the angle control for one side, you could wind up hitting the other side multiple times in a row - not good for finish work.

With these whetstones you might want to use more oil, or agitate the film with a fingertip a bit more as you go. Not so important to saturate it as it is to have a film/puddle on the stone to work with. If I see a black streak forming on the stone I'll stop and work it around so it doesn't get underfoot. All swarf should be suspended in oil or otherwise out of the way. Also, backhoning on a hard stone is a very challenging application - very little to gain and all too easy to whip up a new burr. This is another area where waterstones and hard vitreous stones require different technique.

Stropping with a compound as fine as CrO coming off an India stone you might want to limit yourself to just a few passes/side for best results - that way you'll still have plenty of tooth but with just a touch of polish. Trying to do too much strop work at that grit stage seems to reduce cutting efficiency. If you're going to do a bunch of stropping try to do it on a harder backing like MDF or use hardwood and mix the compound with a tiny drop of oil to make a thin paste - either will limit any tendency to round the apex - works more like a polishing stone instead of a strop. Or just strop on some newspaper (double check for burrs after doing so) as this seems to be a good way of finishing edges without smoothing them out too much.

Another thought - my India stone shed some when it was new - I lapped it with a tile rubbing stone almost from the get-go. The sound on my work PC is dreadful, but the fine side of the India sounded a bit raw compared to what I'd expect. By many accounts those get a bit more refined from use, and that makes perfect sense for a stone of that composition.

All in all very good. I will suggest you might want to do a few more items on that stone - it should be capable of crosscutting newspaper pretty reliably (if somewhat noisily) with no stropping, or stropping with just the reclaimed swarf from the stone mopped up with newspaper - stropping with compound should create an edge that can easily do so very quietly and maybe even shave your face. I'm indebted to Ankerson for a post where he pushcut TP off a silicon carbide stone and that became my benchmark. Took a while to achieve that standard but I'm glad he gave me a mark to shoot for I otherwise wouldn't have thought possible. You can learn an awful lot from the combination stones re use of oils, soapy water, pressure, burr removal etc that might improve your overall technique on any media. You're doing great, keep it up and thanks for sharing.
 
Whoa, thats very good, push cutting bathroom tissue coming off a 280 grit SiC stone. Did he strop it much before the test? Yes, the India stones do get finer with use, perhaps to 350 then with some stropping and your at 400 on the edge. Which will push cut newspaper in any direction, over come wrinkles and shave every arm hair it touches all with very few burrs left. DM
 
HH, inspired me with his post above about push cutting bathroom tissue with a blade coming off a 280 grit SiC. Well,this is a photo of a blade push cutting bathroom tissue coming off Norton's IB8 India stone. DM
100_2512.jpg
 
Just a larger photo showing more area. So, a great edge can be obtained from these stones. DM
100_2513.jpg
 
Back
Top