Norton India vs. Arkansas stones

Mongo

Mongo

Joined
Nov 5, 2001
Messages
8,969
Hello everybody, I have been doing a search for sharpening systems lately and have tentatively decided to try it free hand on a stone. I of course read the thread where Mr. Fisk himself recommends the Norton Fine India stone. Also endorsed by Mr. Fowler and other knife superstars.
My questions are; How does a Norton stone differ from an Arkansas stone? Are they made of different material? Is one easier to use than the other? Are they used wet or dry? And most vexing to me... how does one achieve the proper angle when sharpening?
My blade materials are; D2, carbon V, unk carbon steel, unknown Stainless steel, 420HC, AUS8 and soon the carbon steel of the OVB/Fisk Bowie. I am still hoping that one of these systems will be best for all of these.
Looking forward to all your replies, Thanks... Mongo
 
Arkansas stones are a natural form of quartz (novaculite). Norton India stones are synthetic aluminum oxide (aka corundum, sapphire). Aluminum oxide is much harder and hence faster cutting (though it's not as hard as silicon carbide or diamond.

India stones work and they're so cheap you might as well buy one and see how you like it. Personally I no longer use Arkansas stones because diamond is so much faster, and fine diamond hones aren't expensive. I mostly use coarse silicon carbide for reshaping the edge on a new knife and fine diamond for maintaining an edge, but I still have a couple of aluminum oxide stones and I use them sometimes too. The ones I have are a medium grit.
 
I just noticed you asked a bunch of questions I didn't answer. Why didn't I see them the first time? I think I'd better have some more coffee ... that's usually the reason; the blood content of my caffein stream is probably a little high.

Have a look at the Sharpening FAQ at http://www.bladeforums.com/features/faqs.shtml -- read the other FAQs too; they're cool.
 
Mongo :

How does a Norton stone differ from an Arkansas stone?
Click to expand...

Norton's India hones are man made, which means you go out and get a lump of natural abrasive like Novaculite (which is what Arkansas stones are made of), or one that is man made like Silicon-Carbide (coarse India) or Aluminum Oxide (Fine India), mash it up, sieve to get a consistent grain, and then glue it together. For fine India hones this is a vitrified bond, for waterstones it is a resin bond.

Arkansas stones are either just natural, which means they were just cut off a slab and cut to shape, or man made, so the raw material was crushed, sorted and recontituted into a hone. This is done because the natural hones can have large inclusions in them because the natural gain can be "clumpy", as the individual particles can segregate into one large particle and thus leave very large scratch lines in the finish.

Is one easier to use than the other? Are they used wet or dry? And most vexing to me... how does one achieve the proper angle when sharpening?
Click to expand...

They are both bench stones and are used in an identical manner. Both require some kind of lubricant as they glaze over quite quickly. When I used them, I used some detergent in water. I switched to Japanese waterstones as they cut much faster due to the nature of the bond which doesn't mask the abrasive, and breaks down rapidly, thus giving a consistent level of cutting ability. They also offer the largest range of grits. I switch to diamond plates (DMT) for the harder to cut steels with very high alloy contents.

In regards to keeping a constant angle, you use a jig or some kind, or a lot of skill developed through practice.

-Cliff
 
Mongo,
I have some pretty nice Arkansas stones but in fact I do not use them. Diamond coated whetstones cut much easier and faster, the difference is especially noticeable working with modern super-wear-resistant steels like ATS-34, BG-42, CPM stuff, high-speed steels including D-2...
DMT double sided whetstone Duo-Sharp with one side coarse and another fine probably would be one of the most versatile, time/effort saving and cost efficient sharpening device. Aside from mentioned advantages – it will stay flat forever and will not require any flattening. This is pretty important drawback of relatively soft both Arkansas and some artificial stones.
If you will add ultra fine DMT whetstone or the set of SPYDERCO ProFiles (so-called Alumina ceramic, artificial sapphires embedded in ceramic base) for finishing touch – greatly probably this would be enough to reprofile and sharpen each blade.

Of course no one sharpener can replace your free-hand sharpening skills...
 
I prefer my DMT's, i have tried a friends Arkansas stones and i like the diamond alot better than them. Cuts faster and can put pretty much the same edge on a knife. I use mostly a fine 6" DMT and then finish it with a ultra fine rod from my sharpmaker.
 
imho if ya got a decent large ark or india stone, to use on really dull stuff, and a DMT duofold fine/x-fine, and a spyderco ceramic hone, ya are fixed up in the sharpening department

as far as india/ark, which is best?? well i like the ark, but just because they are kinda pretty vs the india, but either one works fine for the intended purpose - i know my india is a fine and it seems awfully coarse for a fine, i dont know how well it would work to put a really fine edge on a knife, but for just utility sharpening works fine, while a soft ark will put a pretty good edge on a knife by itself, i like to use the DMT to touch up, and the ceramic to finish, hardly ever use the ark/india anymore.....

gonna buy only one, get a DMT duofold fine/x fine, the coarse is for hatchets etc i think, but the DMT stuff is HARD to beat imho, they work great on anything, D2, talonite, etc - have had great luck w/mine


sifu
 
Originally posted by Cliff Stamp
Mongo :

In regards to keeping a constant angle, you use a jig of some kind, or a lot of skill developed through practice.

-Cliff
Click to expand...

That is the punch line.

If you don't already know how to sharpen with other methods, you may find "free handing" on a bench stone to be frustrating. If you know how to form a burr, reverse to other side, and then stone or strop off, you may have success after lots of free-hand practice. If the preceding sentence doesn't make sense, go to this link and read this guys book first:

http://www.razoredgesystems.com
 
The somewhat consensus seems to be DMT. In mentioning this to my best friend this weekend, he told me to hold off on buying anything to sharpen my knives with, saying that he had the best thing for it. Not quite knowing what he was referring to, I managed to get it out of him that it was a DMT system of some sort... one that had clamps and maybe blade angle stuff. I am now going to rush him to get an early B-day present, but I think I still want to try free-hand with a double sided Norton stone... medium/fine. I still find split camps in my BFC search on whether to use the stones dry or "wet". And then when going wet... there seems to be a small variety of substances being used, anything from mineral oil to WD-40 to water. So, more confusion on my part.
I do thank everybody that has chimed in here, and those that still will,
Thinkin' about knives when I should be workin', Mongo
 
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