Nos 68-73 - How Long Does It Take To Make A Knife?

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Dec 7, 2000
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[I posted this verbatim in Steve Johnson's forum so if you read it there you should just blow right by it here; there's nothing new or very interesting. :) ]

How many times is that the first question someone asks when they first pick up one of your knives? :D And how often can we give them a satisfactory answer? This is one I've never known for myself but I always kind of estimated that it took me 20 hours to build a basic knife.

Recently I decided I'd keep track of my time on a, for me, fairly large project. I wanted some "inventory" to keep around for when I get a request and thought making six of the most-requested knife would be a good start.

First off, let me say that I don't think making six of anything is very satisfying, particularly all at once. The creative aspect of the work tended for me to become simply, work. But it did end up with a whole bunch of knives that are not pre-sold, which is a nice feeling.

So I kept pretty close records of my time and what I was doing, from painting layout fluid on the stock to filling out paperwork at the end. What I made is a straightforward average-sized knife with a tapered tang and bolsters; the standard stuff. In fact, for want of a decent name I call this pattern "Standard Tanto." (I'll present my normal offer here: If anyone comes up with a name for this pattern that I use, I'll give them one of the knives they named. I prefer names from literature, a character who might reasonably be expected to have used the knife in question. But there are no hard rules here. Anyone have any ideas?)

Anyway, here's how it broke down:

hours2.jpg


At 12.5 hours per knife, I got a pretty good raise! I finally broke the minimum wage barrier. :D

Here are the knives, just for proof this isn't a crock. My pics suck and I know it, for which I apologize. One of these days I'm going to break down and create a decent dedicated photography space. But for now the backyard and ambient light are all we get. We're getting a decent Christmas bonus at work this year and I'm going to spring for a camera with some reasonable resolution; at least the pics won't be so foggy anymore...

6StdTantos.jpg
 
Wow Dave! 12.5 hours apiece, I'm impressed. These still are some of my favorite knives you make. I've never broken the hours down for sure but I've always generalized 20 to 30 hours. I think I could do several things faster and better now than I used to though (if I'd buckle down and make more knives that is!).

I'll bite on the naming! How about "Sanjuro", that's the name of the ronin who wanders into town in the Kurosawa movie "Yojimbo".

Or, and I kind of like this, the main character in "The Hidden Fortress" is General Rokurota Makabe. The "General Makabe" sounds pretty neat!

How about "Arashi" the Japanese word for storm, I kinda like that too!

or, perhaps "Raiden", Japanese demon god of Thunder and Lightning?
 
Guy those are good names! I think one of them is going to take it. Gimme a bit more time to see if anything else turns up, but I think you're gonna earn your knife... :D

That's how Reg got his Cratchett too, remember?
 
Dave,

Thanks for the research. I've been thinking about that myself. Dang if that isn't the first question someone asks. I think they are trying to be polite and impressed and all.

The next most popular comment is also annoying. When I point out the hamon I get, "Oh it's suppose to be there, I thought it was a mistake."

Steve
 
Sando said:
The next most popular comment is also annoying. When I point out the hamon I get, "Oh it's suppose to be there, I thought it was a mistake." Steve

Oh man, ain't that just likely? Working for a knife dealer I've heard a lot of "unusual" truths and "idears." But this would take me a minute or two to figure out a complimentary reply to... I really try to educate people who are ignorant about knives. About 1/10th of the time they give a crap. But there are those occasional people who really do find it interesting, and if I wasn't polite and try to explain stuff to everyone, I'd miss the few I think I can make into decent knife people.

I had some nice young lady last weekend who really wanted a knife, didn't know squat about em except the approximate size and that it would have a serrated blade. I had fun showing stuff to her and got her all enthusiastic about knives in general. No, it wasn't me she found interesting! :rolleyes: I'm a middle aged fat man. She just liked the idea of having a knife. Her dad rolled up, and he had good taste but no money to salve it with. But he did approve my suggestions and tried to get her to buy a knife right then; good dad! But we didn't have what I convinced her she wants, so we'll see if she shows up at the next show to buy what we ordered for her.

Then there are those bores you just want to slap.
 
Good looking knives, it'd take me more than 12 hours though! Though some things I am getting faster at.
 
Right now I'm at 12 hours from profiling to sharpening. sheath, design, paperwork, extra....a lot extra. you got me beat. so, maybe there's hope for us new guys....we'll speed up somewhere along the line?
 
I second the Raiden choice ... and i also like Shiden - (equally "efficient", cool-sounding and short) - "violet (?) lightning". Both names of some of the best Japanese WW2-era fighter airplanes :D
 
I don't even want to know my hours. I'll quit if I ever find out how many it really takes me.

RL
 
No kidding Roger! Many have found that the better their work gets the longer it takes to do it. I think that must be why the "name" makers are able to charge what seems like a lot for their work - but I bet they're not making a lot more per hour than anyone else... It's only important to me because I'm like that - comparing this "job" to, say, flipping burgers. It'd suck if I could make more working at Wendy's than in my own shop; and in fact I could! But there's really no comparison in the quality of the job, is there?

I've had a number of great suggestions for names for this pattern, which blows me away as I've asked the same question about this knife several times before. I guess this was just more in y'all's faces. :D

Here are some of the suggestions I like:

Arashi, storm
Suikoden, story of 108 Chinese bandits popular in Japan in the 18th century
Rogojin, a knife-wielding character from Dostoevsky
Nisei, members of a Japanese-American unit from WWII
Raiden, demon god of thunder & lightning
Sanjuro, Kurosawa's ronin

You can see why this is going to be difficult. I may use some of these names for future patterns too, so I'm going to have to keep a contact list of who recommended what. This is cool, thanks to everyone who's sent their ideas.

This morning I laid out the steel for the next knife; one that I'm not particularly looking forward to. It's a half-scale version of the theater knife. I'm honored that the owner of the first knife would ask for it but cripes! why don't we make it hard. :D I'm going to have to thin down about 30 washers of acrylic, copper and SS to stack the handle and I didn't have a lot of fun making the easy one! Ever hear of a half-scale knife costing twice as much as its full sized original? :D Like that would fly, eh?

Well, like Roger I like a good challenge. I won't keep track of my time on that one!
 
Dave you have made at least 30 knives since I won the "Cratchet" I have sent you some pics of my latest pruner. I started work on the billet for that
2 years ago. I have done a lot of stuff in between but I would have spent 12.5 hours just looking at the steel and thinking of bull dust reasons not to work on it at that time.

Well I had better keep up with your good advice from a couple of weeks ago and just get stuck into it and get it over with. When I help out with the knife classes everybody on the course takes home a completed knife and one finished blade in the 3 day course. One bloke completed 3 knives during the course. It is all done with files and sand paper. They are not show standard but good honest knives.

If you added up all the bits I do for the students I would make 2 or 3 but don't have anything at the end.

Dave you have thrown down the gauntlet. My next knife is going to be a new Reg record.

Thanks for sharing it is an inspiration.

I don't know any Japaneese heros.
 
Dave, They all look good! Ever thought about having interchangable handles?

I've been asked that question many times but never keep tabs on it. Since I've been in the new and improved shop I'm getting two knives and sheaths done in a week. I'm in my shop everyday for varrious lenghts of time but with the colder weather I have to come in to warm up more often. I don't let time be my boss. The knife is done when its done. That question is asked mainly by the ones that aren't going to buy it anyway.
 
I used to have a three page list of awsome names for me to draw upon when it came time to name a blade. Then my computer crashed. Here are some that I remember, though. They aren't names from mythology but they are cool japanese words:

jinrai - thunderclap
zetsumyoken - miraculous sword
dokumyoken - unbeatable sword
katsujinken - life-giving sword
Tsukikage - moonbeams
oikaze - tailwind
Inazuma - lightning
oroshi - mountain wind
takiotoshi - waterfall
shinobu - loyal retainer
yukizure - accompaniment
kasumi - mist
onikadaki - demon crusher
akumabarai - demon cutting
joiuchi - orders from above
anjin - pilot (the name given to blackthorn from the mini series "shogun")

Most of these names are the names of techniques from Musho Jikiden Eshin-Ryu Iaijutsu. Some others are principles of martial philosophy.
 
Reg, I'm glad you're going to get "serious" about knifemaking! Just be sure it's still fun, not work, good friend.

Ray I never thought about it that way, that they're probably the non-buyers, but I think experience would hold that to be true. Hmmm... Maybe I know who I don't have to be polite to anymore? :D

Ah Hesparus, Hesparus - you do not believe in making things simple, do you? :D Thanks for the great list! I've had too much loss from hard drive crashes not to feel for you. I would not have retained even that much of the lost data. Thank you. It's going onto my own list.

Now, I'm going to have to make a choice. I'll let you folks who've chimed in with ideas know by this weekend. This knife is going to get named, finally! Thanks for all the input.
 
Shouri or Shori depending on how you want to spell it in Romaji, it means Victory.

勝利

If you cant see the character just put the encoding on your PC to Japanese.
View > Encoding > Japanese (JIS) or Autoselect.
 
Dave you're right. Most not all buyers ask " Well how long does it take to make this" To be honest I don't have a clue :confused: I estimate anywhere from 10 to 20 hours, some longer. I probably end up making $5.00 an hour :rolleyes: That's why I really don't concern myself with how long it takes.
By the way, you'll have a tough time picking out a name for your knife. Those are some good ones.
Scott
 
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