Not impressed by my results from stropping.

S

Squashfan

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Jun 6, 2012
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Right now, I am able to get a,what I call , tree topping edge straight off of the fine side of a Norton SiC stone. Oh, and it can push cut newspaper. Still a little burr at this stage. That is without any kind of loaded strop. Sometimes I will chase the burr on paper though, just so I can grind more burr off on the stone. I haven't got a knife sharp enough to run it along the hair on my arm and the knife cut the hair. But I would still call the edge tree topping because I don't have touch skin to cut hair. It takes a little fine control. But after I finish cleaning up the burr and strop the knife, I still is just hanging around the same push cutting level. That is kinda disappointing. I think after I strop, that I should be able to split the moon! I mean, that is the only correct way to test sharpness right!? :p

Actually, I am very happy with how my edges are coming out. That is why I haven't been hanging around as much. My edges are balanced between push cutting and draw cutting. It is just the natural place they are falling and it has worked out great. I could make more passes on the strop to put them solidly in the push cutting edge but it would kill my utility. I got to thinking about this while I was working on a VG-10 Spyderco. I like VG-10.
 
Tree topping off the fine side of a crystolone stone is pretty impressive. What is your technique Squashfan? Forth and back in sections, full single strokes, edge leading or trailing etc.??

I am not very impressed by regular stropping on "soft" backing anymore either and use more and more paper on the coarse side of the Crystolon stone or on HeavyHanded's washboard. The edge rounding is detectable almost right away, no stickiness to the apex. I must admit however that the push cut result on phone book paper improves quite dramatically after a denim strop with "white" compound. I guess my edges are not as clean as yours after a stone.
 
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That is a good outcome from the fine side of a Crystalon for sure. One of my favorite "tricks" is to wipe up some mud that forms with use on the fine side with mineral oil, on a sheet of paper. Wrap this around Washboard or coarse side of a stone and use that for a strop. The edge will be pretty toothy. This for me is still a bit lacking for pressure cutting, even for EDU but is very good for draw cutting. Is all a question of the average task, I used to stop at an 80 grit stone no stropping of any kind.

If I'm stopping at a hard user edge I'll only use the stone, but anything more refined will get some sort of stropping at least on plain paper and generally some variation of accumulated mud or compound.

Backhoning on waterstones or jointer stones makes a wicked catchy edge,as does backlapping on hardwood with a slurry. For me the goal is to always have that catchy edge no matter how refined I go and no matter what method I'm using.
 
For a really refined edge, for me, I quit using strops. I go to a 0.3 micron lapping film on aluminum plate backing. I have a limited supply, so I usually just stop with a Spyderco fine ceramic.
 
Maybe tree topping is the wrong word. I can still catch and cut some hair off of my arm without shaving at the skin. Tree topping is the best word I could think of. I do have a Spyderco Endura that I went to the medium ceramic with. It the sharpest knife I own. But it doesn't do my EDU work very well. I ought to carry it more often, just as an expiriment.

My technique? Find and eliminate a burr with extremely, extremely light pressure. I work back and forth to generate the burr. Then go edge leading. I can either do burr reduction from there or refine the bevels. It depends on how much burr I raise. The two hallmarks of my technique are 1: Is the knife three finger sticky and 2: Fast to sharpen. Though the second point has more to do with blade thickness than much of anything else really. As long as the knife is nice n' sharp, I don't really worry about the angle that much. You guys probably wouldn't like me for that. I would say I add a couple of degrees in stropping. I don't have the time I used to, to sit a work for hours to keep the angles JUST PERFECT.

The only problem with the above technique doesn't work on older knives because I have a real hard time with good burr formation. From back when they ran knives soft enough to be easily sharpened on Arkansas stones. I haven't been able to pin point a technique that lets me turn out soft carbon and really stainless like this VG-10 knife turned out. When I say soft steels, I mean softer than Case's tru sharp. I have an old US made Boker along with an Imperial kitchen knife that are the worst offenders. But I have seen this issue on multiple knives and I know it is my technique or lack thereof. I have thought about an Arkansas stone though.
 
I find a Spyderco medium finish is good for just about anything except shaving. What types of things do you do with an EDU blade? Have you tried sharpening without intentionally forming a burr? Lately I've been only using a Norton Economy stone and the fine side is my final step. Nothing wrong with not stropping if you don't want to go to the effort, or don't find it useful.
 
Squashfan said:
Maybe tree topping is the wrong word. I can still catch and cut some hair off of my arm without shaving at the skin. Tree topping is the best word I could think of. I do have a Spyderco Endura that I went to the medium ceramic with. It the sharpest knife I own. But it doesn't do my EDU work very well. I ought to carry it more often, just as an expiriment.

My technique? Find and eliminate a burr with extremely, extremely light pressure. I work back and forth to generate the burr. Then go edge leading. I can either do burr reduction from there or refine the bevels. It depends on how much burr I raise. The two hallmarks of my technique are 1: Is the knife three finger sticky and 2: Fast to sharpen. Though the second point has more to do with blade thickness than much of anything else really. As long as the knife is nice n' sharp, I don't really worry about the angle that much. You guys probably wouldn't like me for that. I would say I add a couple of degrees in stropping. I don't have the time I used to, to sit a work for hours to keep the angles JUST PERFECT.

The only problem with the above technique doesn't work on older knives because I have a real hard time with good burr formation. From back when they ran knives soft enough to be easily sharpened on Arkansas stones. I haven't been able to pin point a technique that lets me turn out soft carbon and really stainless like this VG-10 knife turned out. When I say soft steels, I mean softer than Case's tru sharp. I have an old US made Boker along with an Imperial kitchen knife that are the worst offenders. But I have seen this issue on multiple knives and I know it is my technique or lack thereof. I have thought about an Arkansas stone though.
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The VG 10 should be a good steel on the Norton Crystalon, but many of the softer kitchen cutlery will be very low RC for the SiC stone. Still works but will need a lighter touch. An India stone would be a good choice, or a cheap hardware store AlumOx stone.

Do you use oil on the Crystalon?
 
I have started experimenting with the india for the other steels. Will need to try it some more before I come to a verdict. Yes, I do use oil on my Crystolon.

I forgot to mention how I strop. It is with white compound on paper wrapped around an old stone. I have two or three layers of paper between the stone and compound loaded paper.

The best thing I have found for working with the low RC knives is the bottom of a coffee mug or other fired ceramic item.

me2, I have tried burrless sharpening but it is hard for me to catch the knife at that point. I will probably get there eventually. When I first used the medium ceramic, I tried just making light passes without generating a burr. I found this weakened my edge and seemed to cause it to roll over. Went back and generated a burr. It seems to have worked since then. However, I literally just checked the knife while sitting here and it is NOT three finger sticky. I would say the lack of three finger sticky is my culprit.
 
Squashfan said:
I have started experimenting with the india for the other steels. Will need to try it some more before I come to a verdict. Yes, I do use oil on my Crystolon.

I forgot to mention how I strop. It is with white compound on paper wrapped around an old stone. I have two or three layers of paper between the stone and compound loaded paper.

The best thing I have found for working with the low RC knives is the bottom of a coffee mug or other fired ceramic item.

me2, I have tried burrless sharpening but it is hard for me to catch the knife at that point. I will probably get there eventually. When I first used the medium ceramic, I tried just making light passes without generating a burr. I found this weakened my edge and seemed to cause it to roll over. Went back and generated a burr. It seems to have worked since then. However, I literally just checked the knife while sitting here and it is NOT three finger sticky. I would say the lack of three finger sticky is my culprit.
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I have had fantastic results on low RC using just that - unglazed underside of a coffee mug or bowl, and then 'steeling' it on the glazed rim.

For keeping that fresh toothy edge you might try reclaiming the mud from your Crystalon and wiping it up by draping a sheet of writing paper on the wet stone and gently dragging it across. Let the excess oil leach out into the paper until the grit has lost most of its mobility and you'll have a strong performing strop when wrapped around your bench stone. Try it with only one layer of paper first and add more only if you are working on a convex or broad Scandi.

I keep a small piece of hacksaw blade with my Crystalon for the sole purpose of whipping up some mud if the edge in question didn't need enough work to generate a usable amount.

Also, the white compound on several sheets of paper will certainly refine the edge but also likely round it a bit and remove all your desirable irregularities. A good strategy for hard-use choppers, but maybe not for EDU. With compound that fine, a single sheet over the coarse side of your combination stone can create an edge with a lot of bite and still polish it up into a good pressure cutter. Most black compounds can be used in similar fashion to create an edge with even more bite but will still maybe be more polished than you're looking for.

Keep experimenting as you go, is possible to sculpt all kinds of edge characteristics into the steel to get a variety of effects. All depends on how you present the abrasive in terms of backing and mobility.
 
I will try the single sheet of paper. As I was saying before, I am pretty happy with my edges but I am always up for some experimenting.
 
I tried the Spyderco ceramics for Murray Carter style sharpening (just 'cause he said not to), and they are not very good for full sharpening. If you are using ceramics similar to Spycerco's bench stones or Sharpmaker rods for pretty much anything more than final polishing/edging, then your experience is exactly what I'd expect. The exception is the corners of the Sharpmaker. The brown rods are aggressive enough after breaking in to do some good shaping/rebeveling of the edge, but just barely. It takes a long time, and there is a fair amount of pushing the edge around as well as actual cutting.
 
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