Novice Hiker/Camper Looking for Gear Advice

MostMenAreRuthless

MostMenAreRuthless

Joined
Sep 27, 2011
Messages
1,864
Ladies and Gents,

I am not unfamiliar with outdoors and camping, but I am a beginner and have recently become a Venture adviser in my Scout unit. As such, I will be more greatly involved in camping and hiking and I am seeking advice from the gear guys here on BF.

We are planning a 2 day/2 night hiking and camping trip--not anywhere hardcore where climbing equipment or sub-zero temperatures would be expected, but more of a moderate outing.

Will you please recommend a gear list for me including packs, sleeping bag/pad, cooking gear, etc. anything and everything YOU would take on a basic trip like this? I do have some gear, but I am looking to build my equipment list. I appreciate any input. I need to be budget conscious, but I am not interested in buying cheap/sub-par equipment to "get by" with. I prefer quality at a reasonable price. Thanks in advance!
 
This is what I took my last 2 day hike:

Osprey Kestrel 48 (for 2-4 day excursions I'd go with something in the 40-60L range depending on gear)
ENO Hammock
- Rain fly and/or mesh bug net if necessary

Small Mess kit (Ti spork, small frying pan, and pot)

Sawyer Water purifier

Food

Clothing (make sure you have rain/snow gear this time of year)

4" fixed blade

Folding saw

2-3 ways to start a fire (for me a Bic lighter, fire steel, and storm proof matches)

Some extra tinder if, especially handy if its damp or dewy (I use wetfire tinder)

Water bottle I've done either steel nalgene or plastic platypus water bag (you can either go steel water bottle because you can boil water in it as a back up to your purifier if necessary but its a lot heavier)

First Aid Kit (make sure it can handle deep cuts that might require stitches later or suture kits if you know how to use them, something that you can use to support a broken bone/twisted ankle, something to clean a cut with so it doesn't get infected, anti-histamine, anti-diarrhea, some pain meds, tweezers (both for splinters/ticks), stuff for blisters, extras of any meds you might need (inhaler or whatever))

Map and compass/GPS

Headlamp + extra batteries (I use a zebralight)

some extra duct tape comes in handy for lots of things

couple gallon zip lock bags

toilet paper

50ft 550 paracord

small fishing kit/trapping wire or twine

signal mirror and whistle (I make sure everybody in the group has a whistle)

I usually take a my Springfield XD in 45acp and an extra mag
 
The Marmot Helium is an awesome 15 degree bag for the price, and is just over 2lbs. It's hard to go wrong with Marmot sleeping bags in general, and if the Helium is out of your price range you can always downgrade to synthetic fill. I have used a 15 degree down bag in temps from 50-0F and have been more or less fine (I use it like a blanket in warmer weather).

The REI half and quarter dome tents are good for the price, as is the Alps Mountaineering Zephyr 1 and 2 tents. Big Agnes is among the best in ultralight tents, and the Copper Spur UL1 and UL2 are solid choices.

I'm somewhat minimalist when it comes to backpacking, and my gear that I recommend is:
Osprey Xenith backpack (most comfortable pack I've ever worn)
Neoair Xlite sleeping pad
Western Mountaineering Ultralite sleeping bag
MSR Sweetwater filter
3L Camelback bladder
MSR Titan Titanium kettle
GSI Titanium spork
Snowpeak Gigapower canister stove+fuel
Bic lighter and ferro rod
Princeton Tec Remix Pro headlamp and extra battery
Topo map and cheap compass
TP and Sea to Summit aluminum collapsible trowel
Antibacterial hand wipes
Tooth brush and sample toothpaste
Small self-made first aid kit (bandaids, antibiotic ointment, ibuprofen, etc.)
Blister kit (athletic tape, 3m paper tape, mole foam, hand sanitizer, benzoin tincture)
Salt Sticks (electrolyte capsules)
Swiss Army Knife (Hunstman)
Becker BK24 neck knife
BV500 bear canister
Big Agnes Copper Spur UL2 tent
 
I'm an Eagle Scout from back in the 70s, and my youngest son is a Star rank. We change up our gear quite a bit, depending on the type of Scout event, season, etc. A couple of things I never go out on a Scout event without:

- Therm-a-Rest air mattress. I've used them for over 30 years and I still have my original 3/4 length mattress. Durable, comfortable, and light. If you don't sleep well, the outing gets less fun really fast.

- Jet Boil Stove. This is a lightweight little jet engine that does one thing - and does it better than any other product on the market. It boils water like a demon. I gotta have my coffee in the morning - no matter where I am. It also excels at rehydrating food, making ramen and other noodles, heating soups, etc.

Oh, and I'll add the usual stuff here about safety and whatnot - take a small first aid kit, compass, paper map, flashlight, Dr. Scholl's Moleskin, Imodium pills, Nalgene bottles of water, and layered clothing. Wear two pairs of socks with your boots, especially if you are carrying a backpack.

TedP
 
Borrow or rent if you can, initially. Never buy gear in a hurry, especially for one 2 day trip.
If you're car camping, don't even worry about a pack for carrying your gear, yet. Get a big Rubbermaid tote. You can use it to store your gear at home, and haul it in your car or truck to camp.
For backpacking, choose your pack last, as the proper size will depend on the rest of your gear. Make proper fit your top priority-don't worry about what anyone else likes or uses.
If you intend to do backpacking trips, start paying attention to weight, right from the start. It adds up very quickly, and many people carry a lot more stuff than they need. If the words "might need" apply to anything except a first aid kit, you don't need it.
Be realistic about your budget and your use. If you're only going to use it occasionally for camping, premium gear can be a huge waste of money. By contrast, if you use it regularly, especially if you're carrying it on your back for 10-20 miles per day, even very expensive gear might be a bargain.
The biggest weight savings will come from the "Big 4": pack, shelter, sleeping bag, and sleeping pad. Those are also the places that buying quality and saving weight can cost a lot of money, particularly the shelter and sleeping bag.

You will need to be a lot more specific about your intended uses if you want anyone to be able to give you good suggestions for individual pieces of gear.
A good way to distinguish between single day events vs 1 to however many nights being spent is by referring to the former as "hiking" and the latter as "backpacking", or "camping" if you are setting up a fixed camp in an accessible location rather than carrying your gear with you everywhere-hard to determine from your post.
 
I know lots of folks don't like to loan out gear, but maybe you can borrow stuff from within your group? in my opinion, cheap out on everything except the backpack. Basically you trade cost for weight or bulk in most gear, but a bad pack can ruin you in a short time. Go somewhere where you can try one on, get fitted and load it up with ballast, then browse the store for an hour or so (should be easy!) don't compromise, if you can't lean your head back, or turn your shoulders, its probably a bad fit for you. if you find you get knotted up in the neck, thats also bad. Pack fit is very personal, and amazingly there are dozens of high dollar packs with little to no real adjustment! And most "tacticool" packs are way heavier than they need to be, are not suited for normal backpacking, and often seem to be selling a brand. you might look like a bad ass, but you'll be sore. While you don't want too big a pack, you may end up helping others with their load, so having a little space may make you a hero. I agree with Owen, rent as much as you can, until you know what gear you'll need, or want. Lots of gear gets sold on how many features it has, when realistically, they are a waste of time. REI rents out nearly everything they sell I think. Plus always look for end of season clear-outs, and changeover sales. let the rich folks buy this years color, and get last years for cheap!

Think about your day to day life, and work from there.
Are you a warm sleeper, or a cold one? I cool off very quickly, worse if I start out too warm, and once I cool off to a certain point, I no longer sleep. so I use a much heavier bag than most.
Are you a snacker, or a big meal guy? no point in a three pot set if half your food for the day is jerky and gorp. then again, share and share alike, if group meals are in the cards, offer to carry more fuel, and let someone else carry the stove and pot.
when you start looking at things like that, you'll find it much easier to make decisions for your needs, rather than the flash and dash of the catalog, its an easy trap to fall into.

Above all ask your troop! unless you ask, you'll never know who is selling gear, has spare kit, or knows who does.

Just some other thoughts at random learned through the wallet.
Packs, waterproof zippers are not. a good set of lightweight drybags are better than a $$$ waterproof pack 9 times out of 10. It should have a height adjustment for the yoke, there should be lots of room in the strap adjustments, and every zipper that is going to be under tension should have webbing buckles over it to take the strain. Look closely at how the compression straps hold the bag together. I've seen packs that don't really compress at all. Also try not to get too specialized, at least until you know what you need for a pack.
Sleeping mat, very personal, if you are a roller, go wider, if you are a corpse sleeper, then go for the 3/4 trail. but a big blue foamy will get you started out. Same with the sleeping bag. make sure it fits! get a good deal online if you need to, but try in-store. you never know what odd pressure points you might find. If you are claustrophobic or a flailer, a square bag might be a better choice than a mummy. I know a few people who flat out cannot sleep in a mummy bag.
stove, liquid fuel has its place, and can be very good. But its messy, and ruins gear. unless you have a good reason, use a canister stove (love my Micro-rocket)
aerosol DEET is the best way to ruin gear. use small amounts from a bottle onto your hand, and then apply. don't spray everywhere. and apply often.

When buying a tent, ask if you can set it up in store. get in there, look around. if the tent needs instructions to keep from ruining it, it will get ruined. if its complex, you will always set it up in the rain, or dark. And it will always be smaller than what you remembered. I'd recommend the one I have, but I doubt you'll be traveling to canada to shop.

I've been using platypus soft bottles for a while. I've found that for daily use they handle about a year, not bad for the convenience(and the failure may have been due to freezing it repeatedly). I have a MSR mini-works filter that works very well, and is easy to use since it threads onto a widemouth nalgene. Makes it easy to keep your clean water clean. White nalgene's might not look flash, but they hold water and are cheap.

I don't like pre-made first aid kits, and home-care supply stores are great for buying supplies in bulk. (also good for scouts) you don't need fancy, but you don't want to think about how many bandaids you've used. compression bandages, white and brown athletic tape, non-stick gauze patches (which are always smaller than you feel they should be) steri-stips, and single shot ointments (antibiotic, burn and itch) are great to have in groups. no risk of cross contamination, (there should be someone in your group who has this sorted already, and they will be a great resource) also, heaps and heaps of gloves. you just never know, and its better to be gloved up. Diabetic lancets make great splinter probes.

Alco-gel. the dreaded fecal oral route is the most common cause of the trots, and you never know if you will be sharing with a carrier. it may seem paranoid but Norwok virus is brutal, and it would devastating to have some of your troopers come down with it during a campout. make it a habit to use, keep clean, and make sure your group follows good food safety protocol. Not nearly as hard as some folks think.
 
MostMenAreRuthless said:
I am not unfamiliar with outdoors and camping, but I am a beginner and have recently become a Venture adviser in my Scout unit. As such, I will be more greatly involved in camping and hiking and I am seeking advice from the gear guys here on BF.

We are planning a 2 day/2 night hiking and camping trip--not anywhere hardcore where climbing equipment or sub-zero temperatures would be expected, but more of a moderate outing.
Click to expand...

It's hard to get super specific about equipment selection as we don't know where or when you are going. Also, you're going to (and already are) getting guidance coming from conflicting points of view including the ultra lite crowd (ti sporks), the bushcrafter crowd (big emphasis on fire lighting and fixed blades) and the survival/tactical crowd (guns, on a scouting trip? really?).

I need to be budget conscious, but I am not interested in buying cheap/sub-par equipment to "get by" with. I prefer quality at a reasonable price. Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

I've found that large, recognized name brands in the "mid-tier" price range tend to offer very good value. Brands like REI, Kelty, Jansport, Sierra Design, Eureka & North Face aren't going to be on any "best of" lists, but will serve functionally for a good long time. As some others have correctly suggested, focus your energy on pack, sleep system and your core clothing system. The rest can patched together.


Will you please recommend a gear list for me including packs,
Click to expand...

I would recommend getting a full sized pack and keeping your personal gear to the smallest kit possible. This will put a small amount of stuff in a big pack, which, as a leader, is what you want when you have a 13 year old kid who is conking out and you need to pull stuff from their overloaded pack to help them. As a leader, you need to be operating well within your personal safety margins and to have a lot slack.

I would target a pack in the 5000 cubic inch/85 liter range. DON'T fill it to capacity with your own stuff and use a packing list to ensure you carry the smallest kit possible. You want extra room in that pack when things go bad.

sleeping bag/pad,
Click to expand...

20f is the standard 3 season warmth category and, IMO, the most versatile. You can go lighter (and colder) but you need to know where you're going and how to do that. The biggest decision is down (will last the longest, is lighter but can get wet) or synthetic (will probably die in 4 or 5 years, is heavier but is warm when wet).

Sleeping pads come in 3 flavors. Closed foam like a Ridge Rest is cheap, indestructible but bulky and uncomfortable. Inflatables like a ThermaRest are a lot more comfortable, less bulky, a bit heavier and cost more. They're more comfortable too. Did I mention that? Lastly, there are frail ultra light options. If money is an issue, just start with a Ridge Rest or a Z-rest.

cooking gear,
Click to expand...

The answer here depends entirely on how you and your fellow scout leaders are going to handle the trip.

The first issue is fires vs stoves, which is a religious issue. Stoves all the way for me. Fires are hugely inefficient, end up harvesting too much wood from the land and leave behind ugly fire rings.

If you settle on stoves, with a group, the next question is meals and how many mouths you are going to feed on each stove.

For backpacking in a group, I tend to think of 4 people per stove as a maximum. This assumes a cooked meal (as opposed to boiled water in a pouch instant meals) and a large pot. Large aluminum pots are just fine and relatively inexpensive.

The big question for stoves is fuel type. I don't know you or your skills so my "easiest" advice is butane cartridge style stoves. Brands vary year to year. Easiest to operate. I hate them. I prefer alcohol or white gas stoves, but these both require some commitment to learn how to use reliably. If you're going to go with either alcohol or white gas, my recommendation is that you (and your fellow leaders) commit to making tea once a day for 2 weeks so that you learn your stoves like second nature.

More of my ramblings here:
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/Stoves.txt


etc. anything and everything YOU would take on a basic trip like this?
Click to expand...


Knowledge.

At least one person on the trip should have a first aid or better, a wilderness first aid course, under their belt.

I would think through and discuss group management issues. When leading group hikes, I insist on a leader who is responsible for navigation and who is always in the lead and a leader who is responsible for 1st aid who is always bringing up the rear. In between, I insist on a rule that hikers always wait for the person behind them at intersections so that nobody takes a wrong turn. Sucks horribly to loose hikers.

Suggest "The Complete Hiker" by Colin Fletcher as a good general, how-to resource.

Hope this helps
 
Owen/gadgetgeek/Pinnah--Thank you so much for contributing your knowledge and information to this thread. I have already learned a lot and am gathering thoughts and compiling the information to formulate my gear list. There are a lot of things to consider, but I appreciate the advice of building a "core" system around the pack/tent/sleeping back and building out from there.

I would still love to hear from others on their opinions regarding this topic.

The question has been raised as to where we are and where we are going. We are in Utah and will be in the high Uintas of the Wasatch range and will be going in the summertime where the mountain temps will have wide fluctuations, but will unlikely dip below freezing at any point. We will also be exploring other locations on separate trips such as Fishlake National Forest, Moab/Arches, etc.
 
I have begun narrowing down my choices and am hoping for some feedback on a few pieces of gear I have potentially selected for purchase. I have read reviews online and each one has fans and detractors.

Pack: REI Flash 62

Tent Choice 1: REI Passage 2. Enough room to fit me and my gear only.

Tent Choice 2: North Face Phoenix 3. Enough room for me and 2 of my own children (when not camping with the Venture Scouts).
 
Are you likely to hike for an overnight with your kids? if not, you might be served better by a big coleman or similar tent for car trips, and get the little tent just for you. that way you have more space if it rains or whatever, instead of jamming you kids into a little space. then down the track when your kids are bigger, you'll also have a better idea of what you want in a larger camping tent.
 
If you can afford one, I would highly recommend an Arc'teryx Bora 80 for your pack. They are a tad heavier, but they ride smooth and have great suspension. I've carried over 80 pounds in mine for 4 days without any discomfort. They have a swivel in the belt that lets your hips tilt without throwing the top of the pack back and forth or pounding your hips left and right.

I would also suggest looking for some nicer used gear. Tons of people buy nice gear, use it once or twice, and lose interest or just don't have time to use it anymore.

I would get something bigger than a 60. You don't have to fill it, but when your pack isn't big enough and you start lashing a bunch of stuff to the outside and it's swinging around and snagging, you'll wish you had a bigger pack
 
Just remember... QUALITY gear. It may be more expensive up front, but it will last much longer, and work much better. In the long run, it will end up cheaper!
 
Gadget--good point. No, I will not likely take my little ones packing, so I will likely get the 2 man tent.

Dark--thanks for the recommendation. I went ahead and ordered the REI pack I mentioned before. It was marked down by 40% so if it ends up being a tad small down the road it won't sting too bad to buy another.

Oly--I agree. Would you consider REI and North Face quality brands? Or, are they more just big names?
 
For the most part, yes. Some of their products (those few made in the u.s) are still excellent. The rest is good. A lot of people like arc'teryx. I'm a big fan of OR (outdoor research) and MSR for tents and stoves. Also may want to consider a shelter system that isn't a tent, depending on your environment and the weather you go in. I use a mountain laurel designs trailstar which pitches with my two trekking poles, guy lines, and stakes, and weighs just over 1 pound total.
 
A nice warm sleeping pad is really really nice. It will make the difference between a good experience and one which is less so. Check out Exped sleeping pads.
 
I've had good results with my Big Agnes Insulated Aircore too. I still add a blue Walmart foamie under it if cold or prickly ground under the tent. Only problem I have is arm drop, unless I sleep on my side.
 
The closed cell pad is a win. I never go into the woods without one even if packing an insulated inflatable. Had air pads go flat on me before and was thankful for the backup.

Exped closed cell Multi Mat with a guide length Thermarest inflatable. This was only my hangout near the stove pads. I had warmer options in my sleeping area. One of the pros of an outing with a pulk sled is even greater comfort.



During another trip: Standard sized Ridgerest with Downmat 7XS. I have upgraded the Ridgerest to the larger size. It was in the upper 20's that night with no wind. Rather nice. The sleeping bag system is my Green patrol over bag with down V-bag inside. For the most part using two bags can be a PITA however the USGI green patrol bag is sized large enough so it isn't that bad.



The ever useful green closed cell pad.

 
Last edited:
I'm an Eagle Scout from '04 and also a Venture Scout. My troop and crew backpacked at Philmont two years in a row during the summers before I graduated HS and left for college and life. We used external packs with various gear that looking back now I probably would have dumped half of the weight if I would have known better. I now go by bare essentials first and then sort out the "wants" and "luxuries" gear and ask myself if I really need it. Going through what you need for a day I would list the following:

Clothing: your clothes are your first line of "stuff" that you will wear, equip, and depending on the weather keep you cool/warm.

Breakfast/lunch/dinner: the most important times of the day. You will need pots/pans, utensils, stoves if you can't have ground fires where you are going, and a spatula for large pots so you don't burn off a finger trying to cook everything with a Ti spork. Don't forget something to eat your food in if you are cooking for everyone and plates aren't around.

FIRE: the one thing that seems to be stressed more than anything besides a knife. Have two or three methods of starting a fire and be proficient at it. A lighter just to be safe, ferro rod, waterproof matches, etc. Fire is great for camping but if it's not allowed on the ground and if y'all are backpacking on the move a small stove would be more reasonable for meals unless it's dinner at the place you intend to stay for the night.

Water: don't forget to hydrate. Have a few methods of purifying water and research ahead where water is available where you are going. I use those potable aqua tabs which can be found at any outdoor store or even Wally World for cheap. Boiling works but is not ideal if y'all are on the move. There are pumps but that can get pricey. We outfitted our packs with platypus packs and a Nalgene bottle for drinking on the move and using the bottle for flavored drink mixes.

Knife: you have to have a knife :D Pick your favorite and make sure you can do basic chores with it.

Multi-tool: this is important due to repairing gear, uses for fishing, and could be your all important knife depending on what it is (I have a SAK farmer which can fulfil both the multitool and knife category).

First aid kit: heaven forbid something should happen but have a REAL med kit and practice how to use it. My maxpedition jumbo sling is basically a trauma kit with some camping stuff inside it :o you can improvise a lot of stuff but not having medical supplies is not good. Here's some of what I carry: emergency blanket - for possible hypothermic situations where heat is needed quickly; quick clot with gauze pads - for puncture wounds that need to be plugged up right away (also tampons work great for this); medical or duct tape for holding over gauze pads also a wrap does the same; triangle rig for tying up a broken arm (it happened to my friend on a summer camp trip); mole skin for blisters and hotspots due to the hiking; CPR mask just in case; trauma sheers - we all daydream of using our knives to save the day but nothing works better than a good pair of trauma sheers when the SHTF; small band aids are a luxury but nice to have and still lightweight; basic meds like Tylenol and Advil;

That's pretty much your bare essentials, everything else can be added on to make things more comfortable.

I hope this helps at least give a few ideas.

Oh I forgot Para Cord!!! Helps with tents, traps, snares, fire starting, fishing, and something to do.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top