Now that things have calmed down.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Gus Kalanzis

Gus Kalanzis

Havin' fun, learning and putting up with Bastid.
Staff member
Super Mod
Moderator
Joined
Oct 4, 1998
Messages
4,131
The first thing I want to do is apologize.
I edited and deleted some posts a while back and although they had absolutely nothing to do with the subject, I should not have done it. (I did let the folks involved know.)

When each of us registered the Forums we agreed to the following. This is considered a contract just as software agreements are.

"You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use BladeForums to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law."
(Please note the use of defamatory, abusive, and harassing).

In addition from the Forums rules:

"Be nice*
Pretty simple, isn't it?
It's our philosophy- Be nice to others and they will be nice to you. It's a proven one as well- when there aren't attacks and nastiness, the level of discussion and the sense of community always increases.
This is not to say that you cannot disagree with anything that you see posted. Just don't be nasty about it. Back up your point of view with facts, logic and reason and you will see the same kind of responses to your own statements.
Show common courtesy, and it will be more than shown to you.
*For those who need a more complete definition of nice, this means you do not harass, slander, defame, lie, cheat, or otherwise act nasty. No flames, no trolls, no name calling. If you still have questions, email us."

I feel that I needed to remind myself and others of the above.

My thoughts are that we can and hopefully will agree and disagree with each other, since that is one of the best ways to learn. I hope that we can do that with the same respect that is evident in general among the vast majority of custom makers and collectors. It is an engrained part of our craft, trade or hobby and I think it benefits collector and maker alike to portray those attributes of our hobby when we post.
 
ok...gus..you are forgiven...especially since you didnt edit any of my posts..but what i want to know is....is this the calm before the storm? or just a trick of the enemy to get us to relax a bit?

------------------
http://www.mayoknives.com


 
Hi Tom,
Na it will most likely happen again - just trying to prolong the peace ... it is kinda nice (reminds me of a knife show).
 
Gus,

As a fellow moderator, I just wanted to let you know (tongue and cheek and all
smile.gif
), that I'm quite content with your having to deal with "brew-ha-ha's". Me? I spend too much time refiling (aka moving threads to their proper locations) to be saddled with peace making!

All kidding aside, your post is classy and I'm sure appreciated by more than have posted to this thread yet! Take care!

-=[Bob]=-
 
May have to start calling you "No Fuss Gus". I like the site very well. Have learned a great deal by lurking. Keep it up I like the way things are going.
jf
 
Jeez, Gus, I thought I was the only "jack booted thug" around here!
wink.gif


We appreciate your efforts to keep the peace, Sheriff.

Blues

------------------
Live Free or Die


 
Gus,

An apology is owed, but not by you.

To my fellow posters. While at times I come across as a smart ass, (which is better than being a dumb ass) and a know it all (in my own defense I must say that 15 years of buying and selling custom knives has taught me a few things). My main goal is what is best long term for custom knives. To the point that I have stopped working with very well known knifemakers because I did not approve of their business practices. Short term this cost me money. Long term, it gave me something more valuable, peace of mind.

I look at the big picture, and focus on the customer. Which after all, if it were not for the customer, no business that you have ever known or heard of would have ever exsisted.

While information is a good thing, too much can make your head hurt thinking about it. While the internet is a great research tool, if you cannot discern the information you need, it does you no good.

The internet is a great place for the exchange of ideas and information. It is also a place for those who are "wanna be's and never gonna be's" to talk about things they really do not know about. Their information comes second hand.

Guys, the makers on this site, too numerous to mention here. For the most part know what they are talking about. Their experience stretches far beyond the mere making of a knife. How about design, marketing, sales and customer service. So when they answer a question on how they do something don't call them a moron or an idiot.

I as a knife dealer have never even attempted to make a custom knife. I have no mechanical skills, just ask my wife. I have not attempted to make a knife as the world does not need one more lousy knife maker.

That said, because I have never made one, does not mean I do not know a bad one from a good one. Most of the full time custom knife dealers in the US right now can tell you what is hot and what's not. The main reason for this is because we deal with it on a daily baisis. The only advantage a dealer has over a maker is that we can compare several different makers and styles on a daily basis, and identify trends quicker than the average person. This is one of the reasons that knife magazine editors, makers and collectors value our opinion. Dealers can save you thousands of dollars over your collecting life time. So when a dealer tells you what their experience is and how they treat a potential customer. Remember, it is experience, training and education that determines how this is done. Don't call someone stupid, because this is not the way you do it. All of us at one time have asked that question...Why do we do it like that? Then comes the answer...Because it's always been done that way. Remember, these are not your Father's and Grand Fathers knives. Think outside the box. Who in their right mind pays $400 for a knife? Ask your friends, they don't know why.

So if your buying and selling custom knives, you are already considered an eccentric. Use that mind set, it will help you sell more products. Using the same sales techniques and philosphies that are used to sell everyday products and services used by most Americans to sell custom knives...that is not the best marketing strategy.

If you are not making/selling custom knives on a daily basis, does this mean that your opinon does not carry as much weight as those who do. The anwer is yes.

Does this mean your opinion is stupid, that you are a moron, no.

But for those are seeking wise council, it is imparative that you identify yourself and your credintials. When someone knows your back ground they can better assess what the value of your contribution to their problem/requirements will be.

Here is a scenario, someone calls me up and says Les Im looking for a good hunting knife.
I ask, bird or beast. Customer responds, White Tail Deer. I have never shot or dressed out a deer. That said, while my opinion as a custom knife dealer will carry a certain amount of weight to that individual. However, if their next phone call is to George Herron, who has probably hunted and dressed out more kinds of game animals than most of us have seen. On top of that he is a custom knife maker. His opinion is obviously going to carry more weight with that customer (as it should) than mine would.

If you love presentation, engraved pieces and can't stand tactical knives. That is your choice, as we say over and over again, "buy what you like".

However, don't go overboard and berate those who make, sell and collect that type of knife. Only those with a very narrow focus cannot see what the tactical knife market has done and continues to do. Provide a entry into custom knives that any collector can afford.

Custom knife collectors, a very intelligent group I might add, left to their own devices, over the next decade of collecting will more than likely look to Damascus and presentation type pieces. Today's tactical collector is tomorrow's art knife collector.

So don't look down your nose at these individual's. You should be embracing them. After all who do you think is going to make your collection worth more money 10 years from now????

So the next time you get ready to berate an indivdual, have the courtesy to at least update your profile and put in there who you are, where you are coming from (as far as custom knives collected, made, sold, etc.) also, put your email up, so people can contact you online. Mike has told me that people do not have to put their email addres up if they fear being spammed. I have not been spammed once for having my email address on this site. See this way if there is a problem, it can be talked about off line.

Also, please note, no names were used here (except mine and George Herron). So any references to person's living or dead are purely coincidential!

Les
 
Ummm... I don't know about that one Ken ...
I have met most of you folks before. I include myself at the very top of the list when I say it would not be a pretty sight
smile.gif

 
Les,
Great Post. I haven't purchased my first Custom knife yet. I've made some mistakes with some of the production knives I've bought; paid too much, or fell for a gimick. They weren't costly mistakes, I can live with them. I've been more than a little "Gun shy" when it comes to the Customs, I do believe they are a far better value, but a mistake can be far more costly. Using a Dealer makes alot of sense to me. I may not take your advice, but I would sure like to hear it. If your not too busy at the NY Custom Knife Show, I would like to meet you.

PhilL
 
I've never been impressed with credentials
or other worthless drivel when it's coming from the mouth of a salesman. Doesn't matter if the salesman has been selling used cars for 15 years. That doesn't give the shuckster any more credability than a person that's been driving or working on cars or collecting cars for years.
Be wary when a "expert" asks for credentials
in order for you to be able to express an opinion that differs from theirs. Egos don't like to allow their godly status to be challenged. Spend a day in a court room and you'll see lots of experts paid to give favorable opinions for the people that hired them. Be extra careful when that person is using their expert status to sell you something.
Also, please note, no names were used here . So any references to person's living or dead are purely coincidential!


[This message has been edited by TomW (edited 02 November 1999).]

[This message has been edited by TomW (edited 02 November 1999).]
 
Les,

Nice post. One of your best since I've been a Blade Forums member. Your take on our being eccentrics is right on target. I think I may just qualify - my stereo has tubes, I wear automatic mechanical watches, and my favorite shooter is a 1966 NM.

Just to continue stirring the pot on experts, a couple of definitions. 1) An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less (no pun intended). 2) Breaking expert down into its component parts - X is a mathematical variable for the unknown and spurt is a small amount of water under pressure. So an expert is an unknown drip under pressure. :-)
 
Tom,

I need some clarification here as your examples border on oxymoronic. No Tom, I did not call you a moron, get a dictionary and look it up.

"Doesn't matter if the salesman has been selling used cars for 15 years. That doesn't give the shuckster any more credability
than a person that's been driving or working on cars or collecting cars for years".

Of course someone who has been selling a product for a profession will know more than someone who just drives it or occasionally works on it or has a collection of them.

Tom, by your logic or illogic, this means that someone who changes their oil or occasionaly works on their brakes or radiator. Is as knowledeable as someone who is a certified (credentials) mechanic, and works on cars professionally.

I hope no one in your family needs a heart transplant. After all you have a heart, you understand how it works and has a collection of Valentine hearts. So, if a heart transplant is necessary you can just jump in there and do the operation!

Tom, dont be fooled by one of those "hucksters" who have a wall full of credentials. Just grab one of those knives you have and start cutting.

So Tom, are you trying to say, even though you have been making these knife pouches for 15 years, that if tomorrow I start making some in the basement that I am as knowledgeable as you? Do you really believe that? Also, do you consider yourself a shuckster when you are advising a client on which pouch will best suit their needs?

Another interesting statment comes from you!

"I've never been impressed with credentials
or other worthless drivel when it's coming from the mouth of a salesman".

Tom you have gone out of your way to help educate us on sales, marketing and pricing. So is your information worthless drivel because you have no credentials to back up what you say or is it worthless drivel because you do have credentials?

Tom, you have missed the whole point of credentials. Credentials, yes many are valid, lend credence to the advice that one is either giving or receiving. Competent advice can help those seeking information to make an informed decision.

Please do not spam Tom. However, if you have been unhappy with the way he has handeled himself on this forum. And do not wish to express your displeasure in a public forum. Below is Tom's email address.

Tom Wilkinson: tamrwilk@worldnet.att.net

My Email address is: rccedge@csranet.com

Tom,

Don't get pissed, just take a deep breath, look at the questions and answer in an intelligent manner.

Les
 
Were you assuming i was talking about you Les? Didn't you read the last line?
We all know of your expertise and credibility. you certainly,spout it enough.
Ok A Lawyer hires an expert witness to defend a salesman for patronizing a *****. a group you'd fit into well.
 
Tom,
Thanks, for your kindly advice. I hate to tell you but I'm also a Salesman. I have made it a point to sell only what I believe to be a good product. I believe in a Win-win, Buyer and Seller both walk away Happy!

I'm new to Knife collecting, but I'm not a child, and I find the older I get, the less I listen to what people say, and I just watch what they do. I ask alot of people their advice, and then I make my own decision, based on what I've heard.

I'm sure you've heard the old saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

I don't know Les, nor do I know you, and if you two have a problem, I'm sure it's none of my business. From what I've heard the man knows his business, and I would ask his advice on what to buy. I never said I would feel obligated to take it.
 
Sorta like the movie Groundhog Day, isn't it?
wink.gif


------------------
Cheers,

--+Brian+--

I may be goin' to hell in a bucket, Babe, but at least I'm enjoyin' the ride.


 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top